My notes (and other findings) related to the FN 5.7x28mm Weapon System (Ammunition, Five-seveN pistol, P90 PDW, PS90 carbine, CMMG Banshee Mk57, SCHV weapons in general, conversion of other weapons, accessories, reloading, etc.)
Tuesday, May 31, 2005
Tuesday, May 24, 2005
Two Notable New Military Small Arms - Trends in Small Arms and Light Weapons Development: Non-Proliferation and Arms Control Dimensions
Two Notable New Military Small Arms - Trends in Small Arms and Light Weapons Development: Non-Proliferation and Arms Control Dimensions
Two Notable New Military Small Arms
As mentioned previously, two newly developed small arms (together with their ammunition) appear to offer unique enhanced effectiveness and/or lethality. These are the H&K G11 (firing 4.73 x 33 mm caseless ammunition) and the FN P 90 (firing the small caliber 5.7 x 28 mm ammunition). These bullpup-design small arms have characteristics that warrant a more detailed examination of their capabilities.
...
FNP 90.56 The characteristics of the FN 5.7 x 28 mm P 90 personal defence weapon system make it more properly akin to a sub-machine gun than an assault rifle. The weapon is ultra-modern, easy to maintain, very light, and reliable. It can be equipped with a laser target designator as well as a wide variety of day and night sights. It has a standard integrated optical sight with no magnification. Like the G 11, its most significant characteristic is its ammunition. The development of this cartridge reflects NATO concerns that the 9 x 19 mm ball ammunition used in most handguns and sub-machine guns possesses insufficient power for the battlefield of the 21st century, where various types of body armour will be commonplace. Designed to provide (according to FN literature) substantially more lethality than the 9 mm round it is designed to replace, it also weighs less that 50 per cent of the latter round. Thus, like the G-11 caseless, a soldier can carry many more cartridges than before. It should be noted that the maximum effective range of this weapon is listed as 200 metres, less than the 300 to 600 metres of most assault rifles and the 1,000 metres of other rifles, but better than any pistol and most sub-machine guns. Of further significance is the fact that a pistol (the five-seven, with a twenty round magazine) has also been developed for the same round.
The SS190 5.7 mm round (it is actually the same bore size as the NATO 5.56 mm round but has a much shorter cartridge case – 28 mm versus 45 mm) is made in full metal jacket (ball), tracer, subsonic and blank forms. It is advertised as capable of creating a larger wound cavity in Fackler gelatin (5 cm by 30 cm) than either the 9 mm jacketed round ( 3 cm with over penetration) or the 9 mm hollow point (4 cm by 40 cm variable penetration).57 Because it transfers most of its energy to the target, it is less likely to exit a target and strike something else. In comparison with the 9 mm FMJ round, it is also advertised as being less susceptible to ricochet and, with a shorter range lethality, less susceptible to creating casualties beyond the range of the intended target. These characteristics make it particularly attractive to military special operations units and police tactical units. In addition, the 5.7 x 28 mm round fired from a P 90 can penetrate 48 plies of kelvar body armour at 200 metres. The characteristics of the round when fired from the five-seven pistol are equivalent but with relative shorter ranges.
The P 90 and its ammunition is in production only in Belgium58 and is believed to be in the inventory of Saudi Arabia's Special Forces, together with some Far Eastern states. Several police forces in Europe are also armed with the P 90. It is priced at approximately US $950, with the price of ammunition at about 30 cents a round. It should be noted that this small arm is being actively marketed for police forces and internal security force organizations. While it generally appears to meet new NATO specifications for a replacement round for the 9 mm, its adaptation is far from assured. This is due in large part to the fact that many states still use the 9 mm and the replacement of these weapons solely for the purpose of standardization would be an expensive proposition (again, a similar problem as regards the G 11, 4.73 mm caseless ammunition).
From a SALW control perspective the ammunition is a matter for some concern (particularly from the law enforcement perspective) due to its ability to penetrate police protective gear. From a civilian stand point, if the wound ballistics are indeed more devastating than other rounds, then there may be a likelihood of more fatalities. Whether or not in a case such as Rwanda or even the Balkans there would have been more fatalities if such ammunition was in wide use is difficult to determine. While it would not be too difficult to legally ban the ammunition and the firearms capable of chambering such a round to civilians,59 this does not mitigate its effect and potential misuse by government authorities – be they law enforcement officials or military units. The requirements of police forces and the need to penetrate body armour (whether military or that worn by criminals) presents a conundrum for those who believe the round could cause unnecessary wound effects and concomitant suffering.
...
56 Paul Tweedale, the Canadian FN Herstal representative provided much of the information contained herein and was forthright in answering all questions. The author was permitted to handle and fire both the P 90 and the Five-seven pistol. Additional views and collateral information on the P 90 were obtained from: Jane's Infantry Weapons, p. 88, and from http://www.remtek.com/arms/fn/p90/index.htm.
57 Note that the 9 mm hollow point would be banned under the "rules of war" but the 5.7 mm jacketed ammunition would not – even though the wound ballistics would appear to be potentially more traumatic. Thus, if all police forces adopted this round they would be in compliance with the international rules of war. At least one senior police force official believes that the wounding capacity of the round is insufficient.
58 The simplicity of the P 90 and the fact that its ammunition is essentially a 5.56 mm bullet in a different casing suggests that both could easily be manufactured in any country currently capable of producing SALW and ammunition. FN Herstal have noted that "the SS190 can be manufactured on existing production lines".
59 The ammunition is banned for civilian use under the Criminal Code of Canada as of December 1998.
Two Notable New Military Small Arms
As mentioned previously, two newly developed small arms (together with their ammunition) appear to offer unique enhanced effectiveness and/or lethality. These are the H&K G11 (firing 4.73 x 33 mm caseless ammunition) and the FN P 90 (firing the small caliber 5.7 x 28 mm ammunition). These bullpup-design small arms have characteristics that warrant a more detailed examination of their capabilities.
...
FNP 90.56 The characteristics of the FN 5.7 x 28 mm P 90 personal defence weapon system make it more properly akin to a sub-machine gun than an assault rifle. The weapon is ultra-modern, easy to maintain, very light, and reliable. It can be equipped with a laser target designator as well as a wide variety of day and night sights. It has a standard integrated optical sight with no magnification. Like the G 11, its most significant characteristic is its ammunition. The development of this cartridge reflects NATO concerns that the 9 x 19 mm ball ammunition used in most handguns and sub-machine guns possesses insufficient power for the battlefield of the 21st century, where various types of body armour will be commonplace. Designed to provide (according to FN literature) substantially more lethality than the 9 mm round it is designed to replace, it also weighs less that 50 per cent of the latter round. Thus, like the G-11 caseless, a soldier can carry many more cartridges than before. It should be noted that the maximum effective range of this weapon is listed as 200 metres, less than the 300 to 600 metres of most assault rifles and the 1,000 metres of other rifles, but better than any pistol and most sub-machine guns. Of further significance is the fact that a pistol (the five-seven, with a twenty round magazine) has also been developed for the same round.
The SS190 5.7 mm round (it is actually the same bore size as the NATO 5.56 mm round but has a much shorter cartridge case – 28 mm versus 45 mm) is made in full metal jacket (ball), tracer, subsonic and blank forms. It is advertised as capable of creating a larger wound cavity in Fackler gelatin (5 cm by 30 cm) than either the 9 mm jacketed round ( 3 cm with over penetration) or the 9 mm hollow point (4 cm by 40 cm variable penetration).57 Because it transfers most of its energy to the target, it is less likely to exit a target and strike something else. In comparison with the 9 mm FMJ round, it is also advertised as being less susceptible to ricochet and, with a shorter range lethality, less susceptible to creating casualties beyond the range of the intended target. These characteristics make it particularly attractive to military special operations units and police tactical units. In addition, the 5.7 x 28 mm round fired from a P 90 can penetrate 48 plies of kelvar body armour at 200 metres. The characteristics of the round when fired from the five-seven pistol are equivalent but with relative shorter ranges.
The P 90 and its ammunition is in production only in Belgium58 and is believed to be in the inventory of Saudi Arabia's Special Forces, together with some Far Eastern states. Several police forces in Europe are also armed with the P 90. It is priced at approximately US $950, with the price of ammunition at about 30 cents a round. It should be noted that this small arm is being actively marketed for police forces and internal security force organizations. While it generally appears to meet new NATO specifications for a replacement round for the 9 mm, its adaptation is far from assured. This is due in large part to the fact that many states still use the 9 mm and the replacement of these weapons solely for the purpose of standardization would be an expensive proposition (again, a similar problem as regards the G 11, 4.73 mm caseless ammunition).
From a SALW control perspective the ammunition is a matter for some concern (particularly from the law enforcement perspective) due to its ability to penetrate police protective gear. From a civilian stand point, if the wound ballistics are indeed more devastating than other rounds, then there may be a likelihood of more fatalities. Whether or not in a case such as Rwanda or even the Balkans there would have been more fatalities if such ammunition was in wide use is difficult to determine. While it would not be too difficult to legally ban the ammunition and the firearms capable of chambering such a round to civilians,59 this does not mitigate its effect and potential misuse by government authorities – be they law enforcement officials or military units. The requirements of police forces and the need to penetrate body armour (whether military or that worn by criminals) presents a conundrum for those who believe the round could cause unnecessary wound effects and concomitant suffering.
...
56 Paul Tweedale, the Canadian FN Herstal representative provided much of the information contained herein and was forthright in answering all questions. The author was permitted to handle and fire both the P 90 and the Five-seven pistol. Additional views and collateral information on the P 90 were obtained from: Jane's Infantry Weapons, p. 88, and from http://www.remtek.com/arms/fn/p90/index.htm.
57 Note that the 9 mm hollow point would be banned under the "rules of war" but the 5.7 mm jacketed ammunition would not – even though the wound ballistics would appear to be potentially more traumatic. Thus, if all police forces adopted this round they would be in compliance with the international rules of war. At least one senior police force official believes that the wounding capacity of the round is insufficient.
58 The simplicity of the P 90 and the fact that its ammunition is essentially a 5.56 mm bullet in a different casing suggests that both could easily be manufactured in any country currently capable of producing SALW and ammunition. FN Herstal have noted that "the SS190 can be manufactured on existing production lines".
59 The ammunition is banned for civilian use under the Criminal Code of Canada as of December 1998.
Ironwood Designs 10/22 page (bullpup conversions)
Some interesting bullpup conversions for the 10/22, no P90ish offerings (yet)... but I did get a sneak-peek at a work-in-progress that looks very promising. :-D Matthew Shuster matt@Ironwooddesigns.com stated that they'd be "available soon."
10/22page
10/22page
Lakeside Guns - Instock Title 1 Inventory Item - (920) 897-4682
Also not a P90, but pretty cool. A belt-fed AR15 upper in 5.7x28mm would be a hoot...
Lakeside Guns - Instock Title 1 Inventory Item - (920) 897-4682
Lakeside Guns - Instock Title 1 Inventory Item - (920) 897-4682
The Forum - SpeakOut.com - Post AWB
The Forum - SpeakOut.com
...
Fabrique National is an old Belgium firearms company that used to make most of Brownings designs. FN is selling the new 5-7 pistol even though this pistol has been targeted by The Brady Campaign for banning. I have already bought a 5-7 pistol and it is capable of effective and accurate fire at further ranges than is normal for a pistol due to the new high velocity 5-7 cartridge. FN will also be introducung a legal semiautomatic version of their famous P-90 submachine gun,(also in 5-7)and their P-2000 rifle. These are atate of the art firearms.
...
...
Fabrique National is an old Belgium firearms company that used to make most of Brownings designs. FN is selling the new 5-7 pistol even though this pistol has been targeted by The Brady Campaign for banning. I have already bought a 5-7 pistol and it is capable of effective and accurate fire at further ranges than is normal for a pistol due to the new high velocity 5-7 cartridge. FN will also be introducung a legal semiautomatic version of their famous P-90 submachine gun,(also in 5-7)and their P-2000 rifle. These are atate of the art firearms.
...
Monday, May 23, 2005
Wednesday, May 18, 2005
Don Hume Open Top Belt Holster (H721 OT)
Select "HERSTAL FN 5.7 USG Model (HB 5.7)" from the drop-down.
: Don Hume Open Top Belt Holster (H721 OT)
: Don Hume Open Top Belt Holster (H721 OT)
FNH USA - Paul Evancoe - Special Operations Technology (Interview with Paul Evancoe)
FNH USA - Paul Evancoe - Special Operations Technology: "Interview with Paul Evancoe
Director of Military Operations"
Paul Evancoe is a former Navy SEAL with extensive experience in military special operations (1965-1989). He served as the director Special Operations, Office of the Coordinator for Counterterrorism, U.S. Department of State (1989-1993), and director, Office of Emergency Response at DoE’s National Nuclear Security Administration (1994-2004) where he headed the Nuclear Emergency Support Team (NEST) and its nuclear counterterrorism world-wide mission.
With over 37 years of real-world experience in special operations, counter terrorism, international security affairs, political-military strategic planning, countering weapons of mass destruction and emergency response, Evancoe possesses a uniquely qualified background. He joined FNH USA, LLC as director Military Operations, in March 2004.
...
Director of Military Operations"
Paul Evancoe is a former Navy SEAL with extensive experience in military special operations (1965-1989). He served as the director Special Operations, Office of the Coordinator for Counterterrorism, U.S. Department of State (1989-1993), and director, Office of Emergency Response at DoE’s National Nuclear Security Administration (1994-2004) where he headed the Nuclear Emergency Support Team (NEST) and its nuclear counterterrorism world-wide mission.
With over 37 years of real-world experience in special operations, counter terrorism, international security affairs, political-military strategic planning, countering weapons of mass destruction and emergency response, Evancoe possesses a uniquely qualified background. He joined FNH USA, LLC as director Military Operations, in March 2004.
...
Personal Defense Weapon: Only for Defense? (Great resource!)
I. Personal Defense Weapon: Only for Defense?
There has been some debate on the criteria, need and tactical role
of the PDW. Let us examine this issue. It can be compared to the
submachine gun. The SMG provided firepower in a smaller package as a
companion arm to the World War II and post-war battle rifles. However,
with the miniaturization leading to the assault rifle, the role of the SMG has
supposedly declined.
Yet the SMG shoots on! Its major disadvantage is lack of range,
because of only firing pistol ammunition. This seeming disadvantage has
many benefits which are low: recoil, muzzle blast, climb, penetration, size,
weight, cost and training time (Taylor, Analysis 14). The Europeans, Israelis,
and Chinese have been more appreciative of the SMG and machine
pistol than the Americans.
The SMG will be more versatile than the handgun and the shotgun
in most tactical situations (Taylor, Sub 8). No one questions its OFFENSIVE
capabilities. Its use has been expanded from the military to police, SWAT
and others.
...
IV. Changing Requirements and Present Criteria for PDW
In 1980 the American Rifleman reported that the Joint Service Small
Arms Program wanted to replace the 1911A1.45 pistol with a 9mm and
improve hit probability (Cowgill 82). Even today the Close Combat
Armament Center brochure of TACOM-ARDEC, Picatinny Arsenal, lists the
M9 as a PDW.
The requirements changed in 1993 from a simple handgun to:
Weight: <1.5 lbs. 100 meter range
Defeat body armor at 50 meters
Hand-free carry and to be worn on person 24 hours a day
Use by special operations troops ( Crist 102, 106).
According to the Army Small Arms Master Plan of 1995, it was
reported that the PDW should be:
<3 lbs. 500-625 ft. range
Concealable Recoil of 9mm
Low magnetic signature Reliable in all weather (Grimes 34-5)
A later report in 1997 indicates:
Replace pistols/SMGs Selective fire
200 meter range Soft/hard target capability
Leap ahead technology
Users: those not armed with rifles, special operations, and law
enforcement ( Steadman, Fighting 21-2).
Nick Steadman reported that the NATO European Staff target for
the PDW as of October 1999 was:
Weight: Handheld – 1 kg (700 gm. desired) Shoulder - 3 kg
Range: 100-200 meters Protected targets: 30-50 meters desired
Suitable while wearing armor, NBC suits and winter clothing (SADW).
According to Mark McFadden of the Picatinny Arsenal, the U.K. has
combined with NATO to develop a PDW replacing the 9mm. However,
the U.S. does not intend to replace its 9 mm systems (E-mail).
U.K. Summary of Requirements:
<.5 meters long Weight: loaded – 3 kg.
Defeat CRISAT protected targets: 150 meters
Off the shelf designs in calibers not used by UK armed forces and in
5.56 will be assessed (no 9mm?)
First batch in service 2003; follow up deliveries: 2004 and 2005
(MoD) (Wood).
In summary, the PDW requirements evolved from a replacement for
the .45 pistol to an entirely new ambitious and even radical firearms
category.
There has been some debate on the criteria, need and tactical role
of the PDW. Let us examine this issue. It can be compared to the
submachine gun. The SMG provided firepower in a smaller package as a
companion arm to the World War II and post-war battle rifles. However,
with the miniaturization leading to the assault rifle, the role of the SMG has
supposedly declined.
Yet the SMG shoots on! Its major disadvantage is lack of range,
because of only firing pistol ammunition. This seeming disadvantage has
many benefits which are low: recoil, muzzle blast, climb, penetration, size,
weight, cost and training time (Taylor, Analysis 14). The Europeans, Israelis,
and Chinese have been more appreciative of the SMG and machine
pistol than the Americans.
The SMG will be more versatile than the handgun and the shotgun
in most tactical situations (Taylor, Sub 8). No one questions its OFFENSIVE
capabilities. Its use has been expanded from the military to police, SWAT
and others.
...
IV. Changing Requirements and Present Criteria for PDW
In 1980 the American Rifleman reported that the Joint Service Small
Arms Program wanted to replace the 1911A1.45 pistol with a 9mm and
improve hit probability (Cowgill 82). Even today the Close Combat
Armament Center brochure of TACOM-ARDEC, Picatinny Arsenal, lists the
M9 as a PDW.
The requirements changed in 1993 from a simple handgun to:
Weight: <1.5 lbs. 100 meter range
Defeat body armor at 50 meters
Hand-free carry and to be worn on person 24 hours a day
Use by special operations troops ( Crist 102, 106).
According to the Army Small Arms Master Plan of 1995, it was
reported that the PDW should be:
<3 lbs. 500-625 ft. range
Concealable Recoil of 9mm
Low magnetic signature Reliable in all weather (Grimes 34-5)
A later report in 1997 indicates:
Replace pistols/SMGs Selective fire
200 meter range Soft/hard target capability
Leap ahead technology
Users: those not armed with rifles, special operations, and law
enforcement ( Steadman, Fighting 21-2).
Nick Steadman reported that the NATO European Staff target for
the PDW as of October 1999 was:
Weight: Handheld – 1 kg (700 gm. desired) Shoulder - 3 kg
Range: 100-200 meters Protected targets: 30-50 meters desired
Suitable while wearing armor, NBC suits and winter clothing (SADW).
According to Mark McFadden of the Picatinny Arsenal, the U.K. has
combined with NATO to develop a PDW replacing the 9mm. However,
the U.S. does not intend to replace its 9 mm systems (E-mail).
U.K. Summary of Requirements:
<.5 meters long Weight: loaded – 3 kg.
Defeat CRISAT protected targets: 150 meters
Off the shelf designs in calibers not used by UK armed forces and in
5.56 will be assessed (no 9mm?)
First batch in service 2003; follow up deliveries: 2004 and 2005
(MoD) (Wood).
In summary, the PDW requirements evolved from a replacement for
the .45 pistol to an entirely new ambitious and even radical firearms
category.
ASSAULT RIFLES AND THEIR AMMUNITION:
Lots of experiments over the years.
ASSAULT RIFLES AND THEIR AMMUNITION:
ASSAULT RIFLES AND THEIR AMMUNITION:
HISTORY AND PROSPECTS
Revised 21/10/2006
© Anthony G Williams
Introduction
First, I need to define what I mean by an "assault rifle", as there are various definitions around. The one I use is:
"A military rifle, capable of controlled, fully-automatic fire from the shoulder, with an effective range of at least 300 metres".
This has some clear implications for the ammunition such weapons are chambered for. First, it excludes all weapons designed around pistol cartridges (i.e. sub-machine guns - SMGs) as they only generate around 500 joules muzzle energy and cannot meet the range requirement. Second, it excludes the traditional "full power" military rifle/MG cartridges such as the .303", the .30-06, the 7.92x57 and the 7.62x51 NATO (typically firing 10-12g bullets at 750-850 m/s, and developing around 3,000-4,000 joules), as these are so powerful that their recoil is uncontrollable in fully-automatic fire from the shoulder. Assault rifles therefore need to be designed around a cartridge intermediate in power between pistol and full-power rifle rounds; in practice, approximately in the 1,250-2,500j range depending on the calibre.
...
ASSAULT RIFLES AND THEIR AMMUNITION:
ASSAULT RIFLES AND THEIR AMMUNITION:
HISTORY AND PROSPECTS
Revised 21/10/2006
© Anthony G Williams
Introduction
First, I need to define what I mean by an "assault rifle", as there are various definitions around. The one I use is:
"A military rifle, capable of controlled, fully-automatic fire from the shoulder, with an effective range of at least 300 metres".
This has some clear implications for the ammunition such weapons are chambered for. First, it excludes all weapons designed around pistol cartridges (i.e. sub-machine guns - SMGs) as they only generate around 500 joules muzzle energy and cannot meet the range requirement. Second, it excludes the traditional "full power" military rifle/MG cartridges such as the .303", the .30-06, the 7.92x57 and the 7.62x51 NATO (typically firing 10-12g bullets at 750-850 m/s, and developing around 3,000-4,000 joules), as these are so powerful that their recoil is uncontrollable in fully-automatic fire from the shoulder. Assault rifles therefore need to be designed around a cartridge intermediate in power between pistol and full-power rifle rounds; in practice, approximately in the 1,250-2,500j range depending on the calibre.
...
Friday, May 13, 2005
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- (Holsters) FN 5.7 in Kydex from Center of Mass (COM)
- (reloading) 5.7x28 dies and reloading data
- (reloading) WTK: 5.7x28 can you use .224 bullets? ...
- (reloading) 5.7x28????
- Tactical Forums: FN Five Seven Test Data?
- OpFlashpoint.org :: View topic - Sig P90
- ArmsLocker Forums - FN FiveseveN
- Officer.com Police & Law Enforcement Forums - FN F...
- ORTO2 Another Summary of the Five-seveN
- Two Notable New Military Small Arms - Trends in Sm...
- Ken Lunde's Pistol Wallpaper Page
- Les Jones: Thursday Gun Links #8
- The Michael Bane Blog: FNH Five-seveN 5.7 X 28 pistol
- The Michael Bane Blog: The Two Front War (Thoughts...
- The Small Arms Review Article Index
- Ironwood Designs 10/22 page (bullpup conversions)
- Lakeside Guns - Instock Title 1 Inventory Item - (...
- Lakeside Guns - Instock Title 1 Inventory Item - (...
- TheFiringLine Forums - What do you know about the P90
- TheFiringLine Forums - Users of the FN P-90
- Muzzelite Bullpup Stocks
- The Forum - SpeakOut.com - Post AWB
- G4541 - Evaluating the cost of SALW marking systems
- Report: Profiling the Small Arms Industry - World ...
- MFIAP.COM " FN P-90 PAGE" / Airsoft BB Guns Air So...
- Articles - FN P90
- TheFiringLine Forums - Civilian FN P90 & f2000?
- TheFiringLine Forums - FN 5.7mm P-90 Ballistics?
- TheFiringLine Forums - Fn P90
- (Game) Rainbow 6 - Weapons
- P90, FN Herstal, Five-seveN, Tokyo Marui, Triple R...
- Don Hume Open Top Belt Holster (H721 OT)
- FNH USA - Paul Evancoe - Special Operations Techno...
- Emergency Resources-Ammunition and Magazines for sale
- ATFMachineguns.com
- Personal Defense Weapon: Only for Defense? (Great...
- ASSAULT RIFLES AND THEIR AMMUNITION:
- AAI Corporation ACR FSDS Ammo
- LostRiverBallistic.com J40 .224-45 grain
- (Another Blog/Discussion) Bastards Inc: FN's Five ...
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