P90 Rumors

I read some place that the FN P90 (where is my F'n P90 damnit?!)has one reliability problem.
I read that if a large portion of the magazine was expended then the weapon was exposed to a stiff physical blow (being dropped or whacked into the wall by excited personell) that the rounds in the magazine would become disorganized.
Any truth to that?

Bibliography - P90 Info

SAR also did an in-depth review, including suppressor, in the August 1998 issue, Volume 1 Number 11.

Just remembered. SAR has a good article on the FN P90 in Aug '98 issue.

The FN P90 was reviewed in the Gun Digest Book of Assault Weapons, 3rd Edition.
Could scan the pages if you want.

Even More P90 Misc

In the 1950's Czeckoslovakia modified the rolling-lock breech system of the German MP-40 (also used, we are told, in the P-5) to a semi-auto Military pistol; the CZ-52 chambered for the .30 TOK, also known as the 7.62 X 25MM.

Well, no. The MP40 is straight blowback. The Stecke-lock roller locking of the Cz52 is more akin to that found on the German MG42 and developmental Stg-45 assault rifle designs, said to be German developments of prototypes taken during the invasions of Poland and Czechoslovokia.

The German Walther P5 pistol is a development of the wartime P.38 with a lifting wedge type locking system- though if you meant the H&K MP-5 submachinegun, yes, it does indeed have a roller-locked mechanism.

I recently bought a CZ-52, and it is a well made, interesting pistol. The 7.62X25 is a peppy little round indeed, and apparently can be reloaded with a 55 grain saboted .223" (5.56MM) bullet and stepped up to around (as I recall) around 2,300FPS - not bad for a sidearm!

The 7,62x25 is indeed *peppy*, a very reliably fed cartridge due to its bottlenecked configuration, and very suitable with reloading with bullets of .308 to .311 in diameter, both lead and jacketed...and the 109-grain tracer bullet of the .30 carbine works nicely, too.

One might speculate that simply necking the .30 TOKAREV to 5.56MM might provide similar carachteristics to the 5.7X28MM developed for this new system. I would not be the least bit surprised if that is essentially just what it is.

Pretty close, though there are some questions as to whether to lean toward the light/fast 45-55 grain .224 bullets of the originam M16 M193 ball ammunition, or to switch to the 62-grain M855/SS109 style bullet [or heavier] for better penetration. Considerations of barrel twist rate arise, as they have with the 5,7mm MMJ, the .30 carbine cartridge necked to take a .224 bullet.

The .223 Timbs is the result of a co-development between Quality Cartridge and Joseph Timbs. It is the American answer to the proprietary .224 BOZ, bringing the CZ-52 into the new millenium. The .223 Timbs is a special loading of the 7.62x25 round for use only in the CZ-52 pistol. It consists of a sabot like the Remington "Accelerator" pushing a 50gr bullet over 2000fps. Concept was for devastating multi-purpose round, useable for small game, varmits, and defense. Accuracy has proven to be on-par with traditional rounds fired from the same pistol, and terminal ballistics are quite impressive with initial tests showing devastating expansion from the varmit-type bullets.

My old C96 broomhandle serves me well; The CZ 52 and Russian TT-33 Tokarev do as well and can handle MUCH higher pressure loads. And that 71-round drum of Shapagin's PPSh-41 submachinegun offers some interesting possibilitries, too:

Sabot ("Accelerator"*-Type) Loads

50gr SXSP (Hornady) $35.97

More P90 Misc

A cursory examination of ballistics suggests that the basic concept for this round is nothing all that new.

The old C-96 "Broomhandle" Mauser was designed around a revoutionary cartridge for the time - the bottle-necked .30 Mauser which could kick out a 90-grain .308" round-nose FMJ slug at velocities exceeding 1,000 FPS. It had a reputation for impressive accuracy and effectiveness at ranges well beyond those normally considered for other handguns of the period, especially when equipped with a detatchable combination holster / shoulder stock.

Sir Winston Churchill in his youger Military days supposedly used and was quite fond of one - as were many Russians.

Knowing a good thing when they saw it, the Russians developed a Browning-inspired T-33 TOKAREV pistol around a rather "juiced-up" version of the .30 Mauser, the .30 Tokarev which in normal service loadings achieves velocities in the 1,400 to 1,600FPS range - pretty impressive for a handgun, and I have read claims that it was, and perhaps still is, the most powerful conventional Military handgun cartridge. It blows the 9X19 MM NATO away, and has a reputation for defeating many types of soft body armor.

In the 1950's Czeckoslovakia modified the rolling-lock breech system of the German MP-40 (also used, we are told, in the P-5) to a semi-auto Military pistol; the CZ-52 chambered for the .30 TOK, also known as the 7.62 X 25MM.

This round was used with some success in submachine guns of several Nations, including the Russian PPSH, and remained popular until obsoleted by the 7.62 X 39 Kalisnakov.

I recently bought a CZ-52, and it is a well made, interesting pistol. The 7.62X25 is a peppy little round indeed, and apparently can be reloaded with a 55 grain saboted .223" (5.56MM) bullet and stepped up to around (as I recall) around 2,300FPS - not bad for a sidearm!

One might speculate that simply necking the .30 TOKAREV to 5.56MM might provide similar carachteristics to the 5.7X28MM developed for this new system. I would not be the least bit surprised if that is essentially just what it is.

If I had my 'druthers and no limit of funds and machine-shop resources, I would be inclined to go with a 7MM using a 65-75 grain projectile.

This new P90 looks as if it might have potential for use as a Police primary weapon; nearly as compact as a pistol but at close ranges nearly as effective as a subgun. The 5.7MM HV round would not be so apt to riccochet off of pavement, vehicles, buildings etc. and pose a threat to innocents downrange as the 9MM etc. would, as these rounds tend to disintegrate on impact. After a couple of hundred Meters, velocity would drop off so as to minimize collatteral damage downrange. How often do LEOs have to engage beyond 25 Meters, anyway?

Rip a couple of punks in two (justly, of course) with one of these little dandies and I'll guarentee that the local Hooligans will treat your Officers with a whole lot more respect for a while!

FN P90 Misc

Manufacturer: Fabrique National, Herstal, Belgium
Type: Selective fire submachine gun
Caliber: 5.7X28mm SS 190
Operation: Blowback
Weight: 6.6 lbs., loaded
Overall Length: 19.7 inches
Barrel Length: 9.5 inches
Magazine Capacity: 50 rounds
Rate of Fire: 200 rpm on automatic
Muzzle Velocity: 2,330 fps
Effective Range: 200 meters

The Weapon

The FN P90 submachine gun, along with the FiveseveN pistol, were designed to give military personnel a system of weapons that were smaller than conventional rifles and carbines, but retained the ability to penetrate soft armor and combat helmets. The P90 is largely constructed of polymers, which contribute to its light weight and unique profile. At less than twenty inches in overall length, the weapon is compact and maneuverable, with controls and straight down ejection that make it entirely
ambidextrous.

A revolutionary feature of the P90 is the see-through, double column, polymer magazine. The magazine rests atop the weapon, parallel to the barrel, as can be seen in the above picture. The cartridges are actually held perpendicular to the barrel's axis, bullets pointing toward the operator's left, and each round is rotated 90 degrees for chambering. In spite of the compactness of the design, the magazine holds 50 rounds of 5.7mm ammunition.

This submachine gun is equipped with a 1X optical sighting system with low light reticle, and has iron sights on each side of the scope, for left- or right-handed shooters. There is an optional built-in laser sight, and a rail to mount flashlights or lasers on either side of the optical sight. A brass catcher is available that snaps onto the ejection port at the bottom of the weapon. It has a capacity of 100 empty cases.

The P90 can be fitted with a suppressor that is 7.9 inches long and 1.6 inches in diameter. Constructed of steel and aluminum, it weighs only 0.88 pounds. When used in conjunction with the
Sb 193 subsonic ammunition, a 30 db reduction in sound is claimed.

The Ammunition

The 5.7X28mm cartridge is something of an intermediate between the 5.56X45mm and 9X19mm NATO rounds. This diminutive round is only 1.6 inches in overall length, with a case diameter that is slightly more than half that of the 9mm. The ammunition is only about half the weight of the 9mm as well- a mere 93 grains per ball round. Recoil impulse is on par with .22 Rimfire rounds, even with a chamber pressure that exceeds 49,000 lbs./psi.

There are currently five types of ammunition available in 5.7X28mm: ball, tracer, subsonic, blank, and dummy. The SS 190 ball cartridge is topped with a 31 gr. steel-jacketed, dual core projectile. A steel penetrator is located in the tip of the bullet, as in the 5.56mm SS 109 projectile, but the aft portion is filled with aluminum, instead of the more conventional lead. Muzzle velocity is about 2,330 feet per second out of the P90 SMG, which results in a muzzle energy of about 374 ft-lbs.

The SS 190 bullet was designed to penetrate up to Level IIIA soft body armor. Testing indicates that it will barely penetrate a 12 inch block of ballistic gelatin, and will penetrate less than 10 inches of gelatin after defeating a ballistic vest. Though some 15 countries use the P90 and FiveseveN systems, the weapon has apparently been used in actual combat only once: six suppressed P90's were used by Peruvian forces during the raid on the Japanese embassy. Unfortunately, results are classified.

Enter the IWBA

The January, 2000, issue of the American Rifleman magazine contains a letter written by Dr. Martin L. Fackler, President of the International Wound Ballistics Association. In his correspondence, Dr. Fackler blasts the magazine for publishing a previous article which insinuated that the 31 gr. SS 190 projectile produces a wound cavity similar to the 62 gr. SS 109 bullet used in the M16A2. Calling such a comparison "an absurd exaggeration," he noted that the P90 bullet does not match the "wounding capacity of a well-designed, expanding 9mm handgun bullet." The doctor further stated that the 5.7mm projectile is about equal to the .22 WMR in actual wound potential.

tangofox's Take

For better or worse, this author believes the P90 to be a harbinger of things to come. Polymers, bullpup stocks, small-caliber ammunition, optical sights, and ambidextrous operation are here and here to stay. Say goodbye to wood, leather, conventional layout, and iron sights (except as backups) for military arms of the future. Illuminated reticles are becoming the rule, rather than the exception, and this is a good thing. At least most countries are adopting weapons for the next generation that do not require batteries, unlike the United States.

In an admittedly apples and oranges comparison, the muzzle energy of the 5.7mm ball round (374 ft-lbs.) is about equal to that of the 9mm NATO and .45 ACP. Since projectile weight and muzzle velocity for the Sb 193 subsonic round were not available, the author used the 31 gr. weight of the SS 190 bullet and the arbitrary assignment of 1000 fps as a (barely) subsonic muzzle velocity to obtain a muzzle energy of only 68.9 ft-lbs.! A 40 gr. bullet would raise energy by 20 foot pounds, but that is still less than a .22 Long Rifle when fired from a rifle-length barrel.

Is the little 5.7X28mm round up to the task? That is the $64,000 question. There are wildly differing accounts of the cartridge's wounding potential. One would think that if the P90 had been a great success in the Japanese Embassy raid, Fabrique National would be trumpeting the results to generate more sales. But, the world must wait until the weapon sees more combat use to see if this is a revolution in small arms ammunition or a flash in the pan.

FN P90 Ammunition

Fabrique Nationale P90 Ammunition

SS190 The SS190 is the 5.7x28 mm Ball round. Its projectile will perforate any individual protection on today's battlefield including the PASGT kevlar helmet, 48 layers of kevlar body armor and the CRISAT target (titanium and kevlar). The SS190's conventional design allows it to be manufactured on existing production lines, and its lead-free composition eliminates range contamination.
Caliber	5.7x28mm
Cartridge length	1.6 in. (40.5mm)
Projectile weight	˜ 2.02g
Recoil implulse	˜ 1.95 kg m/s
Chamber pressure	345 MPa
Muzzle velocity	715 m/s
Perforation at 200 m	- Body armor (48 layers of kevlar) - PASGT helmet

Sb193 (subsonic round) The Sb193 cartridge has been designed to deliver a muzzle velocity of about 300 meters per second. This eliminates the loud crack caused by a bullet travelling faster than the speed sound. To enable the weapon to function reliably when firing this ammunition, the reduced velocity is compensated for by using a heavier bullet. The subsonic round is identified by the bullet's white tip.
Cartridge length	1.6 in. (40.5mm)
Projectile weight	˜ 3.6g
Recoil implulse	˜ 1.3 kg m/s
Chamber pressure	345 MPa
Muzzle velocity	300 m/s
Energy loss a 50 m	˜ 100 J
Effective range (penetration of 24 layers of kevlar)	50 m

FN P90 Laser Target Designator

P90 submachine gun with integrated laser target designator The FN HERSTAL P90 submachine gun can be supplied with an integrated laser on request. This laser is fully integrated into the receiver without modifying the the weapon's outer shape, balance and ergonomics. The customer can choose either a visible "red dot" laser or an infra-red laser for use in conjunction with night vision equipment. P90 LV (with visible laser) In low light conditions and indoors the laser designator, when activated by a pressure switch, projects a highly visible red dot onto the target. The laser designator can be zeroed so that rounds hit exactly at the point indicated by the laser. This enables the user to aim accurately without shouldering the weapon; he or she can fire from the waist, the chest or with the weapon held away from the body. The laser designator allows very rapid target acquisition, especially at close range and/or in low light. The laser dot also has a theoretically disuasive effect on the enemy who can see that a weapon is precisely aimed at them. The laser system has an adjustment switch which allows the user to select one of the laser's three settings: off to avoid accidental activation low intensity for extend battery life or increased eye safety during training hight intensity for maximum combat visibility The visible laser designator allows the user to practice rapid target acquisition and instinctive shooting without firing, as the dot indicates the point of impact. P90 LIR (with infra red laser) The infra red wavelength laser designator projects a dot onto the target that is not visible to the naked eye. The user - and the target - must have night vision equipment to see the dot. This type of designator is designed for night use and for operations where maximum discretion is required (anti-terrorist, hostage rescue, covert operations).

Specifications
Weight: P90	2.70 kg (5.95 lbs.)
Weight: P90L	2.83 kg (6.23 lbs.)
Laser Power Training mode	0.95 mW
Laser Power Combat mode (visible)	8 mW
Laser Power: Combat mode (infra red)	4.5 mW
Dot Size	60mm at 100m
Battery Type	Lithium SAFT LSH 14
Battery Life Training mode	250 hours
Battery Life Combat mode	50 hours
Activation	Pressure switch on pistol grip
Settings	Off/Training/Combat
Adjustments	Fully adjustable for elevation and azimuth

FN P90 Magazine

Fabrique Nationale P90 Magazine

FN P90 Component Groups

Fabrique Nationale P90 Component Groups

FN's Five-seveN® Pistol - The First of a New Generation

FN's Five-seveN® Pistol

The First of a New Generation

In 1935, the FN-made Browning Hi Power was revolutionary. The market quickly adopted this high-capacity 9mm pistol accordingly, and it has since been fielded by over 100 countries. FN's newest contribution the handgun's evolution is named the Five-seveN®. This 20-round pistol fires a 5.7mm bullet that will defeat most body armor in military service around the world today. Essentially, the Five-seveN® represents a quantum leap forward in the handgun's suitablity for close engagements by delivering the type of performance that was previously confined to rifles or carbines. Elements of this performance include: High magazine capacity: The Five-seveN® comes standard with 20-round magazine. High stopping power: The Five-seveN® fires the 5.7x28mm SS190 Ball round which reliably penetrates Kevlar helmets and vests as well as CRISAT protection. High hit probability: The Five-seveN's® extremely low recoil impulse results in virtually no muzzle climb, thereby facilitating fast and controllable follow-up shots. Yet, the Five-seveN® is: Light and ergonomic: Weighing 30% less than most 9mm pistols, the smoothly-contoured Five-seveN® is comfortable to carry and quick to deploy. Fully safe: Due to its double-action firing mechanism, the Five-seveN® offers no inherent risk of accidental discharge during transportation. Furthermore, all of its safety devices are automatically reengaged following each firing cycle. The Five-seveN® fires the SS190 5.7x28mm ball round. This projectile will perforate any individual protection on today's battlefield including the PASGT kevlar helmet, 48 layers of kevlar body armor and the CRISAT target (titanium and kevlar). The SS190's conventional design allows it to be manufactured on existing production lines, and its lead-free composition eliminates range contamination.

Five-seveN® Technical Specifications

Caliber	5.7x28mm
Operating principle	Delayed blowback
Trigger mechanism	Double action only
Magazine capacity	20 rounds
Overall length	208mm (8.2 in)
Barrel length	122.5mm (4.82 in)
Weight, unloaded	618g (1.36 lb)
Weight, loaded	744g (1.64 lb)

Five-seveN (Accessories - Holsters)

I am quite pleased with DeSantis Holster & Leather Goods' leather Speed Scabbard.

I also have a Gould & Goodrich Adjustable Tension Duty Holster but it appears to have been molded for the tactical or DAO version of the Five-seveN rather than the IOM (and it's protruding front sight.) G&G does make several mag pouches that fit the Five-seveN's magazines well.

Safariland lists several models of holster that fit the Five-seveN.

Blade Tech produces several holsters for the Five-seveN, as well as double mag pouches.

C. Rusty Sherrick said:

I can make whatever you want , Look at my website and decide what you want in the way of a holster.

In response to:

I am interested in your FN 5.7 concealed carry holster as well as two (2) of the the the specifically-sized magazine carriers. All pieces should be finished in black with non-reflective hardware.

Please let me know total cost, estimated timeline/schedule, and any additional information that you may need or other product/service offerings that I should be aware of.

Photos of Rusty's work

Five-seveN (Mail Order Suppliers)

CDNN Investments, Inc. / Target Sports, Inc.
P.O. Box 6514
Abilene, Texas 79608
Telephone 800-588-9500
Fax 325-695-4898


http://www.impactguns.com/store/fn_fiveseven.html
http://www.impactguns.com/store/fn_5_7_ss192_ammo.html
http://www.impactguns.com/store/fn_5_7_mags_10rd.html

Kiesler's Law Enforcement and Military Equipment
Kiesler Police Supply
3300 Industrial Parkway
Jeffersonville, IN 47130
Telephone: 800-444-2950 / 812-288-5740
Fax: 812-288-7560
Email: service@kiesler.com

Cienner 22LR Conversions

I picked up one of these for my Mini-14

Corbin's Bullet Swaging and such

J and D Components' Sabots

Sabots

http://jdcomponents.com/Products/products.html

Five-seveN (Gunshops - Arizona)

Arizona Gunrunners
Gary Loventro (Owner/Operator)
P.O. Box 350, 4154 N. Hwy 87 (MAP)
Pine, AZ 85544
Office: +1 928 476 3066
Fax: +1 928 476 3155
( Five-seveN, P90, Ammo )

Arizona Sportsman (Multiple Locations)
2314 East Bell Road (MAP)
Phoenix, Arizona 85022
Telephone: +1 602 765 0468
Fax: +1 602 765 0704
Hours: 9-7 M-F, 9-6 Sat/Sun
( Five-seveN )

Arizona Tactical / Shooter's World
3828 North 28th Ave (MAP)
Phoenix, Az 85017
+1 602 266 2600
Fax: +1 602 728 0930
TOLL FREE 888-843-1992
info@azshootersworld.com
Monday thru Friday 9am-8pm
Saturday and Sunday 9am-6pm

Bear Arms
10269 N Scottsdale Rd (MAP)
Paradise Valley, AZ 85253-1424
Phone: +1 480 998 2727
M-F 10-7
Sat 10-5
Sun 11-5

Legendary Guns
5130 N. 19th Ave., #9 (MAP)
Phoenix, AZ. 85015
602-242-1195
(FN Five-seveN)

Scottsdale Gun Club
14860 N. Northsight Blvd. (MAP)
Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
Phone: +1 480 348 1111
Fax: +1 480 348 1113
M-F: 10am-8pm
Sat: 9am-7pm
Sun: 9am-6pm

Gun Showroom
(Barney and David)
2441 E. Madison St. (MAP)
Phoenix, AZ 85034-2638
Phone: +1 602 286 0636
Fax: +1 602 286 0659
Toll-Free: (888)286-0636
M-F: 10am-6:30pm
Sat: 10am-4pm
Sun: Closed

Five-seveN (Blue Guns)

John Ring of Movie Guns/Blue Guns (Ring's Manufacturing) indicates:

First, The FN 5.7 model we have a mold of is the older tactical version (per your photos).

Next, the moviegun site is our complete mold listing for propmasters to view an order rubber props.
Some of these molds are many years old and we cannot guarantee that the dimensions are correct.
We cast our molds in silicone and in time silicone begins to shrink, this will result in a smaller weapon.
We are able to cast most of the moviegun weapons in both the urethane foam rubber and the urethane plastic (same as our training weapons).

You may place your order via phone, fax or email. We accept all major credit cards.

5.7mm x 28mm Weapons (Existing and Proposed)

FN produces various models of the Five-seveN and of the P90.

Clymer produces chamber reamers.

A Carbine Conversion Unit (CCU), as produced by MechTech, would be interesting.

A re-chambered Beretta CX4 Storm would be interesting.

It might be easier to work with something that already shoots small .22 cartridges (like the .22 Hornet, .22 Remington Jet, .218 Bee, .219 Donaldson Wasp, etc.)

Other options might be anything that fires the .224 BOZ.

Form-factor-wise, anything that fires the .30 Carbine cartridge might also hold promise. Performance using 5.7x28 ammuntion would probably be less than .223 MIKE, 22 Spitfire (AKA 5.7mm Johnson, AKA MMJ 5.7mm), or 22 Carbine wildcats. The M1 and M1A1 carbine configurations, and Iver Johnson Enforcer pistol come to mind. The Johnson Spitfire Rifle is just one example.

Conversions from .223 might include the Olympic Arms OA-93,

Feeding 5.7x28 cartridges into an AR might be accomplished similarly to OA's pistol caliber conversions, but using modified M1 magazines instead of modified Uzi magazines.

Something like the Colt MARS (Mini Assault Rifle System) would be the goal.

5.7mm x 28mm Ammunition (Reloading)

Update circa 06/15/2005

The following note was posted on the FiveseveNForum, apparently from an RCBS employee.

The desired parts for the 5.7X28 are now available to order:

99245 #45 shell holder

90345 #45 Trim Pro Shell Holder

88845 #45 5 Station Shell Plate

11703 Small Base Die Set 5.7x28 (FN)

11701 FL Die Set 5.7x28 (FN)

Not everything has been produced yet but should be manufactured in the next few weeks. At least you can get the item ordered.

The information above should supercede what's been provided previously (below) regarding the special order dies.
----------------------------------
Ammoguide provides some case dimensions, but their information seems somewhat out of date and possibly innacurate.

Mike Haas and I exchanged some email regarding the statement above, so please see below for additional facts and insight:

Stephen,

Thanks, I'd appreciate that. I'm always eager to work with experts in trying to insure that AmmoGuide is accurate. Every page has a "Support" link that can be used to contact me, whether the visitor is a member or not. In the future, please contact me if you have any concerns about anything you see on the site. I value input from people as knowledgable as yourself and AmmoGuide is much the better for it. But if I don't hear from you, I can't address any issues.

I believe you are correct that my original 5.7x28mm dimensions were hand-measured (submitted by a visitor over my Cartridge Creator http://ammoguide.com/runcreator.html ) but also believe the textual description immediately below the diagram noted same in the first sentence. Sometimes SAAMI case diagrams just can't be found, but I try to make it very clear if dimensions are hand-derived. I have published reference books that have hand-measured dimensions noted on some of their diagrams, so the practice is nothing new. Since originally putting up the 5.7x28mm page, my research has turned up what I believe are more reliable dimensions and I revised the diagram and text accordingly. I would very much appreciate your review...

5.7x28mm FN - http://ammoguide.com/?catid=253

You have a nice website also, and I'm sure receive many visitors. Would you like to
suggest modification or even replacement of the textual desciption on the above
AmmoGuide page? I would even invite you to write an article about the 5.7
for the AmmoGuide "Articles" section. I am certain many would read
it.

Thanks for the reply and looking forward to your suggestions,

Mike Haas

http://ammoguide.com/ developer
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen P. Gibbons
To: Mike Haas
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: Pardon me?

Hi, Mike,

Thanks for the note, I've been meaning to contact you also.

I really do appreciate what you've done with Ammoguide, and no flame was intended. If anything, I suspect that the source that you used for the 5.7x28mm info was potentially flawed (from a reloader's point of view.) It looks like you might have used the data from Cartriges of the World 10th edition, which has specs on the
first generation SS90 ammo (not the current generation SS190, L191, SS192, SB193, T194, etc.) You didn't list the source of your information in the Ammoguide entry, so my suspicicions may be wrong.

For example, when I used a micrometer on current factory cartriges that I've fed representatives through my own pistol, the bullets mic out to .224" I've had a devil of a time finding official specs on what FN/Olin/Winchester are currently
producing.
Again, I didn't intend to flame Ammoguide, I just haven't been able to resolve some of the discrepancies that I've observed, and I was trying to be cautious about providing reloading information on the Internet when I had questions myself. I'll add a note of explanation to the blog entry, and clean up my language. :-) Anything you can do on your end would be greatly appreciated too.

Best regards, and keep up the good work,

--
Steve

Mike Haas wrote:
At http://stevesfn57.blogspot.com/2004/07/57mm-x-28mm-ammunition-reloading.html you
note...

"Ammoguide provides some case dimensions, but their information
seemssomewhat out of date and possibly innacurate."

I appreciate the link, but can you explain the flame?

Mike Haas
http://ammoguide.com/ developer

Yahoo's handloading group is useful.

The SubGuns reloading forum is fairly active.

RCBS produces special order dies, including dies and shell holders for the 5.7x28.

• Dies - Part # 56820 $119.95
• Shell holder - Part # 57170 $16.95
• Order special dies and shell holders by part number and description ("5.7x28")
• Allow 6-8 weeks for delivery, and expect to pay shipping. ($163.95 total for dies and 2 shell holders shipped to AZ)
• RCBS Customer Service
  605 Oro Dam Blvd.
  Oroville, CA 95965
  For more information, call 1-800-533-5000 between 6:30 AM and 4:00 PM, Pacific time, Monday through Friday. They take Visa and Mastercard.

Huntington also provides special reloading dies, including dies and shell holders for the 5.7x28. They use the same part numberss as RCBS, but may have more stock on hand.

CH4D can also create reloading dies and shell holders.

Load data is non-existant (July 21, 2004)
Dead ends include: Hogdon, CCI-Speer,

Alternate producers are also non-existant (July 21, 2004)
Dead ends include: RBCD Performance Plus Ammunition, COR-Bon/Glaser,

Wildcats do exist, including some work on the 4.4x28. (found on The Firing Line.)

Ernie Wrenn ernie@mail.socommfg.com at Socom has "plenty" (~50,000) once-fired brass available for "$55 per thousand + fgt."

I had some email correspondence with a hand-loader who said:

S: (I have been reloading for over 30 years). The best place to start
is to find something with the same case volume & bore size.
Powder: My take on the powder used is a moderate speed ball type.
(Theyneed magnum primers)
I was going to try 2400. Ive used it from shotgun-rifle-pistol to good
result.
Primer, standard small rifle.
Bullet: My biggest problem. 40 grain
hornaday have too long nose taper.
Still looking. I am looking 4 berger 30 grain.
.224 dia. Crumples cases when seating. Need a .223 dia. Projo.
My first load tried will be a 30gr Berger bullet, small rifle primer,
10grs of 2400 powder.
Remove magazine before shooting when testing so it would hopefully
Redirect any "EXTRA" gasses.
Keep in touch, Dean

FN Corporate lineage and family tree

The Five-seveN is produced by FN Herstal, SA in Belgium; and marketed in the US by FNH USA. FN Manufacturing USA produces other products. All three subsidiaries (in addition to Browning North America, Browning International, US Repeating Arms, and Winchester Guns) are part of the Herstal Group.

Winchester (part of Olin Corporation) produces ammunition.

FNH USA, Inc. COMPANY PROFILE

FNH USA. Inc. is responsible for marketing only the highest quality firearms to those we entrust to keep the peace produced by one of the world's most recognized manufacturers. Established in July, 1998. FNH USA, Inc. is a full subsidiary of Herstal S.A. (law enforcement and military products (www.fnhusa.com), as well as Browning Inc. (sporting and hunting products) (www.browning.com). Since then we've coordinated all business development activities with U.S. Government agencies, and have also headed up business opportunities within the United States. And in 2001, FNH, Inc. was designated the primary FN Herstal office for law enforcement and military commercial activities in the United States.

FNH USA's Military and Law Enforcement products are manufactured in the U.S. by FN Manufacturing Inc. Columbia, SC, and U.S. Repeating Arms Corp. New Haven, CT, plus select products made in Belgium by FN Herstal S.A. This workbook presents FN's product offering for Law Enforcement, Military and Commercial Markets.

http://www.fnmfg.com/
FN Manufacturing, Inc., located in Columbia, SC, is a precision machining manufacturer specializing in the production of small arms. Our products include M16 and M240 machine guns, M249 SAW, and the FNP Polymer 49 pistol for military and law enforcement markets. FNMI provides weapon training as well as subcontract services for computer numerically controlled (CNC) and conventional machining, heat treating, and surface finishing.