PS90Forum :: View topic - 5.7 AMMO DESIGNATIONS AND VELOCITIES FROM FN-STYLE WEAPONS

PS90Forum :: View topic - 5.7 AMMO DESIGNATIONS AND VELOCITIES FROM FN-STYLE WEAPONS:

Posted on ps90forum by wildeye111

"FN used and continue to use with Fiocchi a powder from Western Powders- label of 'RAMSHOT' for all of their factory loads. They use only two of the RAMSHOT line, these are Zip and True Blue.

SS190- 6.0 grains- Zip(plain tip) 6.5 grains-True Blue(black tipped)
SS191- 6.0 grains- Zip(plain tip) 6.5 grains-True Blue(black tipped)
SS192- 6.5 grains- True Blue
SS193- 2.0 grains- Zip
SS195- 7.0 grains- True Blue
SS196- 4.0 grains- True Blue
SS197- 5.5 grains- True Blue

And you ask...how and why Western Powders....

FN used/uses a Powder Manufacture called PB Clermont site:
http://www.pb-clermont.be/ which is a subsidery of Eurenco groupe SNPE from Belgium. This parent company also controls EURENCO Bofors- which is Alliant Powder in the USA, EURENCO Vihtavuori- which is Vihta Vuori distrbuted via Kaltron-Pettibone in the USA and EURENCO France- which is PB Clermont. PB Clermont distributes their powder via Western Powders and.......thus RAMSHOT."

FN FiveseveN Forums - Subsonic Load?

Posted by Medula Oblongata:

FN FiveseveN Forums - Subsonic Load?: "Im in the business of knowing (and prosecuting those who don't) what AP ammo is, how it is used, and the legal ramifications thereof.

Here is some technical data from my lab manual issued by my agency:

�5.7x28mm weapon system�
FN P90 - firing on the range

SS190 (Armour Piercing) Standard Ball, 31 gr. FMJ, 2,133 fps. RESTRICTED SALE - AGENCY DROP-SHIP ONLY per FNH-USA company policy

L191 (Tracer), 31 gr. Tracer, 2,133 fps. RESTRICTED SALE - AGENCY DROP-SHIP ONLY per FNH-USA company policy

SS192 (Softpoint) Duty/Training, 28 gr. JHP, 2,034 fps. 50 box/2100 case Discontinued

T194 (Duty/Training), 28 gr. JHP, 2,034 fps. 50 box/2100 case Discontinued

SB193 (Subsonic), 55 gr. FMJ, 984 fps. RESTRICTED SALE - AGENCY DROP-SHIP ONLY per FNH-USA company policy

SS196SR, 40 gr. V-Max (Replaces the SS192 round) Not sold where prohibited by law.


Here is a cross sectional cutaway of the SB193 round, it is quite obvious that it lacks ALL attributes that would classify it as AP. But the absolute kicker in this situation is the fact that as it IS a 22 cal projectile, even if it were designed solely for a pistol, it is EXEMPT from the AP law because the AP law states specifically
' (ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and
intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25
percent of the total weight of the projectile...' Therefore, no matter how you cut it, it is not regulated BECAUSE IT IS NOT LARGER THAN 22 CALIBER. FN Herstal, as a policy, has decided not to sell to the public. There is no law that would stop them from doing so.

I grow tired of the argument. To quote a holl"

Army Technology - FN HERSTAL - Small Arms and Weapon Systems

Army Technology - FN HERSTAL - Small Arms and Weapon Systems: "5.7 X 28mm WEAPON SYSTEM
The 5.7 x 28mm Weapon System is based around the SS190 round which can be fired by both the P90� submachine gun and the Five-seveN� pistol. Both weapons are ergonomically designed with no protruding parts and can be field stripped without tools in a very short amount of time.
P90� SUBMACHINE GUN
With a maximum effective range of 200m and a 900rpm firing rate, this 3kg weapon is highly versatile, having both single shot and fully automatic firing modes. The P90� is fitted with an integrated optical sight that allows the user to shoot with both eyes open; this can easily be replaced with other types of sights.
FIVE-SEVEN� TACTICAL PISTOL
The Five-seveN� tactical pistol is a single action pistol with hidden hammer characterised by a short, light trigger pull for fast accurate shooting."

FN FiveseveN Forums - Terminal Ballistics of ss190 - Any documented incidents?

FN FiveseveN Forums - Terminal Ballistics of ss190 - Any documented incidents?

SS90 beside SS190

Cross-sectional ammo photos (Very Cool)

	Cartucho 5.7x28 P-90 con bala S-190. FOTO: CGL
	Cartucho 5.7x28 P-90 con bala trazadora punta roja. FOTO: CGL
	Cartucho 5.7x28 P-90 subsónico, punta blanca. FOTO: CGL
	Cartucho 5.7x28 P-90 tiro reducido, punta hueca. Núcleo de aluminio. Marca Verde. FOTO: CGL

FN P90 Ammunition

Fabrique Nationale P90 Ammunition

SS190 The SS190 is the 5.7x28 mm Ball round. Its projectile will perforate any individual protection on today's battlefield including the PASGT kevlar helmet, 48 layers of kevlar body armor and the CRISAT target (titanium and kevlar). The SS190's conventional design allows it to be manufactured on existing production lines, and its lead-free composition eliminates range contamination.
Caliber	5.7x28mm
Cartridge length	1.6 in. (40.5mm)
Projectile weight	˜ 2.02g
Recoil implulse	˜ 1.95 kg m/s
Chamber pressure	345 MPa
Muzzle velocity	715 m/s
Perforation at 200 m	- Body armor (48 layers of kevlar) - PASGT helmet

Sb193 (subsonic round) The Sb193 cartridge has been designed to deliver a muzzle velocity of about 300 meters per second. This eliminates the loud crack caused by a bullet travelling faster than the speed sound. To enable the weapon to function reliably when firing this ammunition, the reduced velocity is compensated for by using a heavier bullet. The subsonic round is identified by the bullet's white tip.
Cartridge length	1.6 in. (40.5mm)
Projectile weight	˜ 3.6g
Recoil implulse	˜ 1.3 kg m/s
Chamber pressure	345 MPa
Muzzle velocity	300 m/s
Energy loss a 50 m	˜ 100 J
Effective range (penetration of 24 layers of kevlar)	50 m

Fackler letter to the NRA regarding FN's 5.7mm (Negative Opinion)

...reprint this letter (American Rifleman, Jan 2000, p. 4) from Dr. Marvin Fackler:

"The article 'FN's FiveseveN System (No.v/Dec. 1999 p.40) seriously misrepresents the wounding capacity of the 31-gr. P90 bullet. Claiming it "produces a wound cavity that is similar to that of the 5.56 mm NATO ammunition is an absurd exaggeration. The 31-gr. P90 bullet has only half the weight of the M16A2 bullet - and its velocity is about 1000 f.p.s. less. (The reference was intended to convey that it is an FMJ design, not that it has equal energy and wounding characteristics to the 5.56x45 mm cartridge. - The Eds).

The amount of tissue disruption propduced by the P90 bullet is less than one-third of that produced by a well-designed expanding 9x19mm handgun bullet. And the P90 produces a temporary cavity of only about 8cm diameter - smaller than that of an expanding 9mm handgun bullet. Most of the P90's bullet's wounding potential is wasted in producing a temporary cavity that is too small to be a reliable wounding mechanism. The P90 bullet doesn't even come close to matching the wounding capacity of a well-designed, expanding 9mm handgun bullet.

The light recoil of the P90 should hardly come as a surprise: The momentum and kinetic energy of its bullets are only about half that of the .22 Hornet bullet. The P90 bullet's wounding potential is about equal to that of the .22 WMR bullet. The laws of physics cannot be denied - minimal recoil is inconsistent with maximal tissue disruption.

For the military, where any wound is often all that is required to cause an enemy soldier to leave the battlefield, perhaps this tiny P90 bullet is OK. Law enforcement officers are often faced with armed violent criminals at close range. In that scenario, a bullet capable of disrupting a significant amount of tissue is needed: One must incapacitate a criminal, a minor wound will not suffice. By no stretch of the imagination is the P90 bullet adequate for that task.

References for further reading in the Wound Ballistics Review are: Vol. 3, No. 3, 1998 (pp. 36-37) 'Corrections on the Wound Ballistics of the current FN P90 bullet'; Vol. 3, No. 1, 1997 (pp. 44-45) "more on the bizarre FN P90'; and Vol. 1., No. 1, 1991 (p. 46) 'Description of the first generation P90.' These may be obtained from the IWBA by calling (310) 640-6065, or its website at www.IWBA.com.

Marvin L. Fackler, MD, FACS,
President, Int'l Wound Ballistics Ass'n.