This Day in History
  The Moscow Victory Parade of 1945 (1945)A month and a half after Nazi Germany surrendered to the USSR, Soviet Premier Joseph Stalin ordered a celebratory parade through Moscow's Red Square. Thousands of troops from different regiments and fronts participated, accompanied by tanks and other military equipment. At one point, war veterans memorably threw down hundreds of Nazi banners at the foot of Lenin's mausoleum. According to legend, Stalin had initially planned to participate in the parade but changed his mind after what accident? More... Discuss |
| |||||||
| General Firearms discussion Talk about anything firearms related |
 |
| | Thread Tools  | Search this Thread | Display Modes |
| #1  07-09-2006 | ||||
| ||||
 ED or Roger: GIAT ADR? Hey, French guys, do you have anything about the "old" ADR (Arme de Defense Rapproché), the prototype PDW developed by GIAT before they better decided to go with FN for the P90? __________________ "It is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself, when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks. It is legal and lawful to own a shotgun or a rifle. We believe in obeying the law." -- Malcolm X "We (atheists) act in good conscience because we believe in moral principles, not because we expect a reward in Heaven." -- Margherita Hack    |
| #3 07-09-2006 | ||||
| ||||
| I can actually read a little of that... But only like every fourth or fifth word... And my head starts to hurt after about a paragraph. I gave up on my Russian when I figured out that the Soviets were gone for good. |
| #4 07-09-2006 | ||||
| ||||
Hmm  I had a photo in a book with some great info (the photo was the same as in the russian article, just maybe slightly better). But of course i cant find it right now and dont have a scanner avaible. As i can recall it it was suppose to have a 50round magazine (wherever that would fit?) and a cyclic rate of ca1000rpm. In 1990 GIAT purchased FN and then GIAT favoured the FN P90 in 5.7x28mm over their own 5.7x22mm PDW project. |
| #5 07-09-2006 | ||||
| ||||
| Some more history "framing" FN begins working on what is to be become their P90 PDW in 1986. Initial development of the companion 5.7x28mm cartridge starts with the loading of the polymer core SS90 projectile in various commercial cartridges such as the .22 Hornet and the .30 Carbine. The latter is reportedly used unmodified with sabots and in a necked-down format. In 1988 GIAT begins to work on a cartridge and personal defense weapon to go with it. The finalized ADR - Arme de Defense Rapproche is chambered for a 5.7x22mm cartridge, reportedly based on a necked-down 7.65x21mm Luger (.30 Luger) case. One year later GIAT offers to provide the TDP for its 5.7x22mm PDW cartridge to other designers and companies. In april 1989 NATO publishes document D/296, outlining a new requirement for a Personal Defense Weapon (PDW). The US Army Infantry Center (USAIC) publishes a new edition of the Small Arms Master Plan (SAMP). The SAMP continues to outline objectives for a new family of infantry weapons. These are now named the Individual Combat Weapon (ICW), Personal Defense Weapon (PDW), and Crew Served Weapon (CSW). The ICW is to weigh no more than 10 pounds fully loaded, and be effective out to 500 meters versus troops wearing body armor. The ICW is also intended to be effective against vehicles and low flying aircraft. The PDW is projected to weigh no more than 1.5 pounds, and be capable of defeating troops wearing body armor at 50 meters. |
| #8 07-10-2006 | ||||
| ||||
 Oh, man...! That -WAS- an ugly motherfucker... and looks also unpractical as hell. Where does it feeds from? Besides, why just don't go for something more conventional? I understand that the P-90 is all but conventional, but I'd better handle practically a P-90 than that thing. I'd have developed something similar to a Micro-UZI... __________________ "It is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself, when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks. It is legal and lawful to own a shotgun or a rifle. We believe in obeying the law." -- Malcolm X "We (atheists) act in good conscience because we believe in moral principles, not because we expect a reward in Heaven." -- Margherita Hack |
| #9 07-10-2006 | ||||
| ||||
 Roger-Are YOU sure? http://www.thegunzone.com/556dw-4.html or The two companies took somewhat different approaches. Giat concentrated on developing a new cartridge resembling a .30 Luger round necked down to .22 caliber, which they called the 5.7x22mm. Fabrique Nationale not only developed a larger round, the 5.7x28mm, but FN also developed a series of innovative weapons around the new cartridge: a select-fire bullpup weapon with a 50-round horizontal magazine on top of the receiver and an extremely accurate, lightweight (19 ounce), high capacity (20 round) pistol called the Five-Seven. FN publicly announced they were developing a personal defense weapon in 1989 which was scheduled for production 1990. Ironically, however, the P90 was not named for the year of its initial production, but rather for FN's "Project 9.0" which spawned it. When Giat became the parent company of Fabrique Nationale, Giat abandoned the 5.7x22mm project in favor of FN's more advanced project for several reasons. (1) FN's 5.7x28mm cartridge met all of the NATO requirements. And (2) Giat didn't have a weapon designed for its cartridge, but FN had already developed the P90 for its new cartridge. The first public demonstration of the Five-seveN pistol subsequently took place in 1995, and an improved variant went into production in May 1998. The external ballistics provided by FN's 5.7x28mm cartridge are vastly superior to the performance provided by the Russian 5.45x18mm PMT cartridge. As of this writing, the P90 has been adopted by more than a dozen countries in limited numbers. remtek.com/arms/fn/p90/data/concept.htm |
