Pellets from the .223 Rem...?

Tuesday, May 30, 2006
Pellets from the .223 Rem...?

The .223 Rem or 5.56mm NATO is a versatile cartridge and is widely used for varminting and, in some places, for deer. However, some folks find even this relatively mild cartridge to be too much for some uses. Also, a natural tendency to frugality can encourage the adaptation of a single arm so chambered to a multitude of uses.

One of those many uses can be the elimination of the smaller vermin in and about the house. And one way to do that is to use primed cases to fire .22 caliber air rifle pellets.

Of course this isn't a new idea by any stretch of the imagination. Sub-power loads have been used since the development of firearms. So far as the .223 cartridge is concerned, soldiers have been doing all sorts of things for years. Shooting pellets loaded ahead of blank cartridges is just one "trick" soldiers use to amuse themselves. The Convert-a-pell is however a much better system. For one thing, air rifle pellets are designed for the velocities likely generated ahead of the fast powder used in the blank cartridges. With the Convert-a-pell, the sole propellant is the 209 shotgun primer. The cases are standard nickel-plated (to make them easily distinguishable, there is no other reason I can discern) and have been altered to accept the primers by drilling out the base and counter-sinking the hole. Because the 209 primer contains the anvil this system works just fine. Loads can be tuned by changing primers by make and type.

Actually, one could could make these oneself with a bit of care. It just takes a drill, properly handled countersink and patience.

How do they work? Well, I think that they are noticeably louder than the Aguila Colibri or even the CCI CBs. They are less accurate, too. Even at only 25 yards group sizes will be twice those of the Colibri and 4 times the size of a properly set up air rifle. However they are fun.

Match Ammo Prep

Custom Cartridge Cases by Heritage Arms, Inc

Custom Cartridge Cases

We offer quality CNC machined cases from solid bar stock, to your design. You can provide us with a chamber cast or actual dimensions, primer pocket size and quantities.



Custom 4-bore cases shown.

Ballistics by the inch

Why "ballistics by the inch"? Well, just about forever people have wondered what kind of trade-off one made in choosing a gun with a short barrel - how much power were you giving up for convenience/concealability? There has been a lot of anecdotal information available - comparing this 2" .38 to that 6" .38, or a longslide .45 to an officer's pistol with a shorter barrel - but there hasn't been much in the way of consistent research made available to the average gun owner. In the 1980s American Rifleman did some tests using a .44 mag revolver, cutting the barrel down from 18" to 1", and back in the 1930s someone did something similar with a 30-30. But just try and find that data quickly. And further, how does that data compare to your 9mm or .32? Do they all lose power at the same rate? Are some ammos better for your purpose than others?

We were curious just exactly what the drop-off in velocity was for a given caliber over a range of barrel lengths, and using a variety of available ammunition. So, we decided to do some actual testing. And, we wanted to make this information freely available as a service to gun owners everywhere. This website is the result.

27 CFR Part 179 (ATF Stuff, including definitions)

CHAPTER I--BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS, DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY

PART 179--MACHINE GUNS, DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES, AND CERTAIN OTHER FIREARMS


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



179.1 General.
179.11 Meaning of terms.
179.21 Forms prescribed.
179.22 Right of entry and examination.
179.23 Restrictive use of required information.
179.24 Destructive device determination.
179.25 Collector's items.
179.26 Alternate methods or procedures; emergency variations from requirements.
179.31 Liability for tax.
179.32 Special (occupational) tax rates.
179.32a Reduced rate of tax for small importers and manufacturers.
179.33 Special exemption.
179.34 Special tax registration and return.
179.35 Employer identification number.
179.36 The special tax stamp, receipt for special (occupational) taxes.
179.37 Certificates in lieu of stamps lost or destroyed.
179.38 Engaging in business at more than one location.
179.39 Engaging in more than one business at the same location.
179.40 Partnership liability.
179.41 Single sale.
179.42 Changes through death of owner.
179.43 Changes through bankruptcy of owner.
179.44 Change in partnership or unincorporated association.
179.45 Changes in corporation.
179.46 Notice by taxpayer.
179.47 Notice by taxpayer.
179.48 Failure to pay special (occupational) tax.
179.49 Failure to register change or removal.
179.50 Delinquency.
179.51 Fraudulent return.
179.52 State regulations.
179.61 Rate of tax.
179.62 Application to make.
179.63 Identification of applicant.
179.64 Procedure for approval of application.
179.65 Denial of application.
179.66 Subsequent transfer of firearms.
179.67 Cancellation of stamp.
179.68 Qualified manufacturer.
179.69 Making a firearm for the United States.
179.70 Certain government entities.
179.71 Proof of registration.
179.81 Scope of tax.
179.82 Rate of tax.
179.83 Transfer tax in addition to import duty.
179.84 Application to transfer.
179.85 Identification of transferee.
179.86 Action on application.
179.87 Cancellation of stamp.
179.88 Special (occupational) taxpayers.
179.89 Transfers to the United States.
179.90 Certain government entities.
179.91 Unserviceable firearms.
179.92 Transportation of firearms to effect transfer.
179.93 Transfers of firearms to certain persons.
179.101 Registration of firearms.
179.102 How must firearms be identified?
179.103 Registration of firearms manufactured.
179.104 Registration of firearms by certain governmental entities.
179.105 Transfer and possession of machine guns.
179.111 Procedure.
179.112 Registration of imported firearms.
179.113 Conditional importation.
179.114 Application and permit for exportation of firearms.
179.115 Action by Director.
179.116 Procedure by exporter.
179.117 Action by Customs.
179.118 Proof of exportation.
179.119 Transportation of firearms to effect exportation.
179.120 Refunds.
179.121 Insular possessions.
179.122 Requirements.
179.131 Records.
179.141 Stolen or lost firearms.
179.142 Stolen or lost documents.
179.151 Failure to make returns: Substitute returns.
179.152 Penalties (records and returns).
179.161 National Firearms Act stamps.
179.162 Stamps authorized.
179.163 Reuse of stamps prohibited.
179.171 Redemption of or allowance for stamps.
179.172 Refunds.
179.181 Penalties.
179.182 Forfeitures.
179.191 Applicability of other provisions of internal revenue laws.
179.192 Commerce in firearms and ammunition.
179.193 Arms Export Control Act.

Paul Kightlinger’s PK2224 & PK224S High Velocity Special Purpose Pistol Cartridges

Another SCHV option.

3000 ft/s with 40 grain bullet thru a 4" barrel?

An "interesting" thread on various SCHV developments over the years.

My goal is to achieve 750 fpe with a pocket-sized pistol.What would be the limitations to design a small pistol with this kind of performance?

Another Glock Carbine Conversion

The IMPULSE SYSTEM uses powder gases, collected via ports in the barrel and transfers this energy via a hollow chamber (gas collector or impulse chamber) and a sliding element (impulse transfer ring) to the slide. This impulse equalizes the mass irregularities and allows reliable function even with heavier or longer barrels.

The Impulse System was developed to equip pistols, which dispose of a Brwoning type Lock up (e. g. Glock, Colt, CZ etc) with barrels up to 40 cm (16") in length.

Moreover, these units offer for the first time the advantage of using compensators or longer match barrels in combination with standard target loads.

Quackenbush Air Guns

Quackenbush Air GunsHigh power airguns suitable for hunting.

Bryan and AssociatesCrosman, Benjamin, Sheridan, and Daisy Factory Authorized Repair Station

Bryan and AssociatesCrosman, Benjamin, Sheridan, and Daisy Factory Authorized Repair Station

Instructional Shooting Kit

[I thought the following was interesting. The design would be more interesting if the pellet was actually seated in the chamber insert instead of the barrel insert.]

Instructional Shooting Kit



This kit is intended for indoor or instructional purposes.



It consists of a chamber insert (1), a barrel insert.(2), primers (3), pellets (4), a screwdriver (5), a cleaning brush (6), a ramrod (7), a small carboard container to hold the pellets and primers (8) and a target (see below).



The assembly works by seating a pellet and the bore end of the barrel insert, then pushing the barrel insert into the chamber.



Then, the top of the chamber insert is removed, and a primer is place in the cup. The insert is then chambered in the rifle.



The practice pellet has a range of 5 to 20 yards.

I. Personal Defense Weapon: Only for Defense?

I. Personal Defense Weapon: Only for Defense?
There has been some debate on the criteria, need and tactical role
of the PDW. Let us examine this issue. It can be compared to the
submachine gun. The SMG provided firepower in a smaller package as a
companion arm to the World War II and post-war battle rifles. However,
with the miniaturization leading to the assault rifle, the role of the SMG has
supposedly declined.
Yet the SMG shoots on! Its major disadvantage is lack of range,
because of only firing pistol ammunition. This seeming disadvantage has
many benefits which are low: recoil, muzzle blast, climb, penetration, size,
weight, cost and training time (Taylor, Analysis 14). The Europeans, Israelis,
and Chinese have been more appreciative of the SMG and machine
pistol than the Americans.
The SMG will be more versatile than the handgun and the shotgun
in most tactical situations (Taylor, Sub 8). No one questions its OFFENSIVE
capabilities. Its use has been expanded from the military to police, SWAT
and others.
Handicaps of the SMG
But its size, weight and limited range handicaps its use, especially
with the arrive of the assault rifle and mini-assault rifle, such as: Colt XM177,
HK53, AKSU, etc.
II. Machine Pistol to the Rescue?
Even smaller than the SMG are the machine pistols. They have the
compact size and low weight desired for the PDW. But most have the
following problems: not controllable on full automatic fire, short ranged
and awkward with stock and/or attached holster ( Karwan 60-1). The
standard pistol design fares very poorly for full automatic fire. Only the
very expert can use them effectively in specialized circumstances
(Thompson, Mastering 66-7). The PDW must learn from the deficiencies of
the machine pistol.
IIII. Back to the Future
The Astra Model F. Hill SMG, Polish PM63, Colt SCAMP, Ingram, Davis
arm gun and Sarvis forearm gun all have characteristics that would lead
to a good PDW. That is to say, compact firepower.
IV. Changing Requirements and Present Criteria for PDW
In 1980 the American Rifleman reported that the Joint Service Small
Arms Program wanted to replace the 1911A1.45 pistol with a 9mm and
improve hit probability (Cowgill 82). Even today the Close Combat
Armament Center brochure of TACOM-ARDEC, Picatinny Arsenal, lists the
M9 as a PDW.
The requirements changed in 1993 from a simple handgun to:
Weight: <1.5 lbs. 100 meter range
Defeat body armor at 50 meters
Hand-free carry and to be worn on person 24 hours a day
Use by special operations troops ( Crist 102, 106).
According to the Army Small Arms Master Plan of 1995, it was
reported that the PDW should be:
<3 lbs. 500-625 ft. range
Concealable Recoil of 9mm
Low magnetic signature Reliable in all weather (Grimes 34-5)
A later report in 1997 indicates:
Replace pistols/SMGs Selective fire
200 meter range Soft/hard target capability
Leap ahead technology
Users: those not armed with rifles, special operations, and law
enforcement ( Steadman, Fighting 21-2).
Nick Steadman reported that the NATO European Staff target for
the PDW as of October 1999 was:
Weight: Handheld – 1 kg (700 gm. desired) Shoulder - 3 kg
Range: 100-200 meters Protected targets: 30-50 meters desired
Suitable while wearing armor, NBC suits and winter clothing (SADW).
According to Mark McFadden of the Picatinny Arsenal, the U.K. has
combined with NATO to develop a PDW replacing the 9mm. However,
the U.S. does not intend to replace its 9 mm systems (E-mail).
U.K. Summary of Requirements:
<.5 meters long Weight: loaded – 3 kg.
Defeat CRISAT protected targets: 150 meters
Off the shelf designs in calibers not used by UK armed forces and in
5.56 will be assessed (no 9mm?)
First batch in service 2003; follow up deliveries: 2004 and 2005
(MoD) (Wood).
In summary, the PDW requirements evolved from a replacement for
the .45 pistol to an entirely new ambitious and even radical firearms
category.
V. Design Problems
To keep a PDW compact, magazine capacity of 25 rds., range
requirements and body armor penetration are difficult to achieve.
Ammunition Selection is critical. To achieve high magazine
capacity, reducing the base size of the cartridge allows more rounds to
be stored in the magazine. Reducing the bullet size and weight also helps
with this problem, i.e., HK 4.6mm, FN 5.7mm.
Storing the magazine in the pistol handle does not allow enough
round capacity (25 rds.). Enlarging the pistol handle will make the firearm
difficult to use for those with less than large hands and with winter gloves.
Necking down standard pistol rounds allows the use of a standard pistol
design, i.e. .224Boz, .224 VOB. Note, as discussed previously in machine
pistols, this layout does not allow good control on full auto-fire.
Most of these attempts mean using cartridges of small size and thus
stopping power In the Korean War, the 7.62 Tokarev and .30 carbine
gained the reputation of having poor stopping power (Russ 143, 151, 212).
Increasing the base or overall size of the cartridge will increase the
length and size of the magazine, thus hurting the compactness of the
PDW, i.e., 224Boz, 5.56mm NATO.
Body Armor Penetration of CRISAT protected targets at 150 meters is
a formidable task for the PDW. CRISAT body armor consists of 1. mm
titanium with twenty layers of aramid (John, James 45). If this is an allimportant
demand, then the 9mm will not do. Then others will ask, why not
go to the 5.56 NATO cartridge.
Other possible candidates are: . 221 Fireball, 5.7 Johnson, .30
carbine, 9mm Win. Magnum, 9.2mm Russian. High technology
ammunition, such as the Steyr plastic cased flechette could be utilized.
Any new ammunition means increased cost and logistics.
Use of the standard magazine increases the size of the firearm. The
Czechoslovak and Uzi designs are the most space efficient. The new HK
4.6 mm PDW follows this layout. Still, in most designs the magazine
protrudes, hurting the compactness of the firearm.
Ammunition and Size will Determine the Design of the PDW.
VI Can the 9mm x 19 Fly?
Would the 9mm NATO make an effective PDW cartridge? Does it
have the effective range?
Theoretical Range:
Line of sight danger zone 350 meters (45 x 160 cm target)
Terminal Ballistics 630 (15 kg, 108 ft lbs)
Relative penetration (ball) 300 (steel helmet)
(Kjellgren 40-3)
Majority SMGs 100 – 200
Selective fire/long barrel 250-350 yds. (Nelson/Musgrave 6)
SMGs 150 meters (Dmitrieff 9)
SMGs – aimed/suppressive fire 200 (Ferguson 77)
Demonstrated Range:
.22RF handgun/no wind 500 yds. (full silhouette)
.38 target handguns 300 (turkey silhouette)
(Keith 109, 116)
SIG P210 pistol 100-200 (Thompson 71)
MP5 Semi-Auto 150 (Ayoob 7)
SMGs 100-150 meters
(Taylor, Sensible 23)
Marshal Arms Pistol 150 yds. (Balsavage)
It becomes apparent that the 9mm x 19 has more range potential
than most are aware of. Remember Elmer Keith using a .44 magnum
hitting a deer at 500-600 yards ( Seyfried 26).
Heavier Loading/Longer Barrel would improve the 9mm as Dmitrieff
suggests, which would put it into the carbine class (3). This is what the
Czechoslovaks did with the Models 24 and 26 in 7.62 Tok (Nelson and
Lockhoven 189). 9mm 5mg ammunition exists and +P, +P+ ammo are
used on a regular basis by law enforcement. Further comparisons are:
Thompson – Center pistol 9 in. barrel CCI Blazer 124 gr – 1350 Fps
Revolver 4 in barrel Rem. 357 125 – 1450
(Comus, 222, 4)
Walther P38 4-7/8 in Win. 115 – 1155
Marshal Arms Pistol 6.5 in Win. 115 – 1212
(Balsavage)
With a longer barrel, an increase of 15% velocity can be gained
(McLaughlin 67).
Better Sights equal to current assault rifles and/or high technology. Tritium
red dot type of sights would improve hit capability and range.
Body Armor can be overcome by using armor piercing ammunition at
reasonable ranges, although civilian police would not appreciate this.
Common ammo as used by the pistol is an advantage on the battlefield
(McLaughlin). Any new, non-standard ammunition increases logistical
supply problems. Note: the U.S. does not intend to change from the 9mm
system (McFadden). High tech ammunition not only increases logistics,
but also the time/cost for research and development. Will any nonstandard
ammunition provide a significant tactical advantage over the
9mm?
The 9mm x 19’s advantage is that it is the world’s most used military
pistol/SMG cartridge! Will the 9mm make an effective PDW? Only time,
range and armor piercing questions will tell.
VII Proposed Criteria for PDW
Height: 6 in/15.4cm Barrel: 7 in+/17.8 cm+
Length: <12 in/30cm Weight: 3 lbs/1.36 kg
Capacity: 25+ rds. Cyclic Rate: semi, burst, 600 rpm
Sights: Rifle, tritium dot Range: 150 meters
Stocks: Retractable, Detachable Ammo: 9mm, 221 fireball,
Steyr Flechette, ?
Features:
Ambidextrous controls Optional higher capacity
magazine
Flash suppressor/muzzle brake Suppressor
Picatinny rail for: sights Modular design
and accessories Tactical sling
Most important criteria:
Ammo selection must meet range, armor piercing and stopping
power requirements. Is the 9mm x 19 good enough? Will adopting nonstandard
or high tech ammo be enough of a tactical advantage over
the logistical disadvantage?
Sights: use assault rifle type of sight or the new tritium dot sights: Trijicon,
Ring Sight, Meprolight. These new types of sights will increase speed of
day/night target acquisition and range without needing batteries.
Stocks must be retractable, i.e., M3, H&K, etc. Also, detachable, folding,
sturdy and aid shooting.
The horizontal magazine makes the firearm more compact as contrasted
to standard magazines, which protrude from the firearm.
With the magazine placed horizontally above and parallel to the
barrel, it allows: compactness, high magazine capacity, able to fire from
the low-prone position, holsterable (Marshal Arms). Low barrel position
with the pistol handle forward makes repeat shots easier and to be fired
one-handed. The Hill SMG set the example for the HKG11, FNP90 and
Marshal Arms Assault Pistol.
Holsterable to be available to the user at all times.
Compact firepower, keep the PDW small. Do not make it into a larger
SMG or assault rifle.
VII (B) Slide comparing Uzi SMG to horizontal magazine firearm
VII (C) Slide comparing HKMP5 to Marshal Arms Assault Pistol
VIII Cautionary Note
PDW will be a highly desirable weapon for terrorists and criminals. It
offers concealed firepower, more range and magazine capacity than the
pistol and shotgun. More attention will be needed to secure these
firearms.
Yes, there are already other compact firearms out there. Also, we
all know that criminals follow all gun control legislation.
IX Need for and Tactical Role of the PDW
The PDW is not an assault rifle! For troops that need shorter rifles, arm
them with mini-assault rifles.
The pistol is regarded as a defensive weapon (Taylor, Analysis 75),
with a maximum effective range out to 25 meters for most personnel. Col.
Cooper states it takes a minimum of 500 rds. to train on (101). Also, the
instructors must be highly qualified. Its magazine capacity and range are
limited.
In 1963, Nelson’s The World’s SMG, stated, “Previous firearms for selfdefense,
such as pistols, are no longer sufficient for the crews of heavy
weapons, or for the members of small specialized infantry or patrol units.”
(20).
Dmitrieff echoed the above by saying, “The need for a light and
compact arm, more accurate than a pistol, has been felt by soldiers since
the introduction of firearms.” (5).
Both have encouraged the development and use of the SMG.
Chuck Taylor has pointed out that the stocked machine pistol and the
SMG are more effective than the pistol (Machine 50). Even though the
assault rifle has replaced the SMG in a larger role, both are too large for
PDW applications.
Tactical Mission Need: Personal Defense Weapon to provide more
firepower and range than a pistol, yet is smaller than the standard SMG,
carbine, and assault rifle. Required for crew-served weapons personnel,
wheel/armor/aircraft crews, combat leaders, special operations, police,
SWAT, etc. Holsterable/concealable. One-handed firing while: driving,
boarding ships, climbing, rappelling, wounded, etc. or those normally
issued with a pistol.
The PDW is controllable on full-automatic, has more range,
magazine capacity and is easier to train on than the pistol. Without a
stock, it is basically a defensive compact weapon. (Note: some slings aid
in firing). When a tanker has to sweep his vehicle or unhorse it – he will
have a far more capable PDW than a pistol!
Can the PDW Be Offensive?
Yes, with a well-designed stock that aids shooting. Detachable,
retractable, aid in compactness.
Goods sights equal to rifle or high tech tritium ret dot sights help in
target acquisition and range. Both stocks and sights give the PDW full use
of its potential.
Combined with other features previously mentioned, all combine to
give the PDW a hit capability to 150 meters and equal to most SMG in
combat effectiveness. The PDW could be compared to a miniaturized
SMG but with longer range and accuracy potential.
Its niche is compact firepower. With the recent emphasis on Military
Operations in Urban Terrain and Close Quarters Battle, the need for it is
even stronger.
Let us change the Personal Defense Weapon’s name to the
“Assault Pistol” to emphasize its size and offensive potential.
X Errors and Recommended Reading
All errors, opinions and conclusions are solely the author’s. The hope
of this presentation is to further debate, and in so doing, benefit the soldier
and police officer.
Recommended Reading
Historical:
World’s Submachine Guns, Vol. I, by Nelson, Lockhoven.
World’s Machine Pistols and Submachine Guns, Vol IIA, by Nelson,
Musgrave.
Shooting Impression:
Karward, Charles
Thompson, Leroy
both in leading firearms magazines.
Up-to-Date Info:
Small Arms Review: Smallarmsreview@aol.com
Steadman, Nick: Small Arms Data by Wire (SADW)
SADW @compuserve.com and leading firearms magazines.
Tactical Use of:
Books and articles by Taylor, Chuck:
The Combat Shotgun and Submachine Gun: A Special Weapons Analysis
SWAT magazine
Tactical Shooter
WORKS CITED
Ayoob, Massad. “Full Auto Firing Techniques.” Full Auto. Vol. 1. 1984.
Balsavage, Walter. “9mm x 19 Tests by author.”
Close Combat Armaments Center, U.S. Army Armament Research,
Development and Engineering Center. Picatinny Arsenal.
Cowgill, James. “Small Arms for Tomorrow’s Battlefield.” American
Rifleman. Jun. 1980.
Comus, Steve.The Gun Digest Book of 9mm Handguns. 2nd Ed. Northbrook:
DBI Books. MCMXCIII.
Cooper, Jeff. Cooper on Handguns. Los Angeles: Peterson. 1974.
Crimes, Vincent. “Small Arms Plan Yields Results, New Contracts.” National
Defense. Jul./Aug. 1995.
Crist, Stanley. “The Small Arms Master Plan.” The Gun Digest, 1993. 47th Ed.
Ken Warner. Northbrook: DBI Books. 1992.
Dmitrieff, G. Submachine Gun Designer’s Handbook. Cornville: Desert.
1981.
Ferguson, Tom. Modern Law Enforcement Weapons and Tactics. 2nd Ed.
Northbrook: DBI Books. MCMXCI.
John, Jeff and James, Gary. “World’s Hottest Pistol Round.” Guns and
Ammo: High Tech Firearms. 1999.
Karwan, Charles. “Spitfires.” American Handgunner: Combat 1999
Annual. 1999.
Keith, Elmer. Sixguns by Keith. Harrisburg: Stackpole. 1961.
McFadden, Mark J. E-mail to author. 14 Apr 2000.
McLoughlin, Chris. “SMGs, ARs and SGNs: Law Enforcement’s Choice.”
Small Arms Review. Jul. 1999.
Nelson, Thomas and Lockhoven, Hans. The World’s Submachine Guns
(Machine Pistols) Vol. I. Cologne: International Small Arms. 1964.
---. and Musgrave, Daniel. The World’s Machine Pistols and Submachine
Guns, Vol. IIA. Hong Kong: Chelsas Ltd. 1980.
Russ, Martin. Breakout: The Chosin Reservoir Campaign, Korea, 1950.
New York: Fromn, 1999.
Seyfried, Ross. “Long-Range Handgunning.” Handguns Annual. 1999.
Steadman, Nick. “Future Shot: More Bang for Your Buck (Rogers).”
Fighting Firearms. Spring 1997.
---. Small Arms Data by Wire (SADW). #29. Oct. 1999.
SADW@compuserve.com.
Taylor, Chuck. The Combat Shotgun and SMG: A Special Weapons
Analysis. Boulder: Paladin Press. 1985.
---. “Machine Pistols.” Guns Illustrated: 1968. Vernon Hills: DBI Books. 1967.
---. “The Safe, Sane and Sensible SMG.” SWAT. April 1982.
---. “The Submachine Gun Today.” Oct. 1999.
Thompson, Leroy. “Swiss Perfection for Y2K.” Handguns. Oct. 1999.
---. “Mastering the Machine Pistol.” Combat Handguns. Dec. 1999.
U.K. “Summary of Requirements: PDW.” MoD Contracts Bulletin
26 Jan. 2000.
Wood, N.M. E-mail “Future Possible Purchase DCC1/031-Personal Defense
Weapon.” Defence Procurement Agency, 15 Aug. 2000 to author.
IV. Changing Requirements and Present Criteria for PDW
In 1980 the American Rifleman reported that the Joint Service Small Arms
Program wanted to replace the 1911A1.45 pistol with a 9mm and improve hit
probability (Cowgill 82). Even today the Close Combat Armament Center
brochure of TACOM-ARDEC, Picatinny Arsenal, lists the M9 as a PDW.
The requirements changed in 1993 from a simple handgun to:
Weight: <1.5 lbs. 100 meter range
Defeat body armor at 50 meters
Hand-free carry and to be worn on person 24 hours a day
Use by special operations troops (Crist 102, 106).
According to the Army Small Arms Master Plan of 1995, it was reported
that the PDW should be:
<3 lbs. 500-625 ft. range
Concealable Recoil of 9mm
Low magnetic signature Reliable in all weather (Grimes 34-5)
A later report in 1997 indicates:
Replace pistols/SMGs Selective fire
200 meter range Soft/hard target capability
Leap ahead technology
Users: those not armed with rifles, special operations, and law
enforcement (Steadman, Fighting 21-2).
Nick Steadman reported that the NATO European Staff target for the PDW
as of October 1999 was:
Weight: Handheld – 1 kg (700 gm. desired) Shoulder - 3 kg
Range: 100-200 meters Protected targets: 30-50 meters desired
Suitable while wearing armor, NBC suits and winter clothing (SADW).
According to Mark McFadden of the Picatinny Arsenal, the U.K. has
combined with NATO to develop a PDW replacing the 9mm. However, the U.S.
does not intend to replace its 9 mm systems (E-mail).
U.K. Summary of Requirements:
<.5 meters long Weight: loaded – 3 kg.
Defeat CRISAT protected targets: 150 meters
Off the shelf designs in calibers not used by UK armed forces and in
5.56 will be assessed (no 9mm?)
First batch in service 2003; follow up deliveries: 2004 and 2005
(MoD) (Wood).
In summary, the PDW requirements evolved from a replacement for the
.45 pistol to an entirely new ambitious and even radical firearms category.
VI Can the 9mm x 19 Fly?
Would the 9mm NATO make an effective PDW cartridge? Does it
have the effective range?
Theoretical Range:
Line of sight danger zone 350 meters (45 x 160 cm target)
Terminal Ballistics 630 (15 kg, 108 ft lbs)
Relative penetration (ball) 300 (steel helmet)
(Kjellgren 40-3)
Majority SMGs 100 – 200
Selective fire/long barrel 250-350 yds. (Nelson/Musgrave 6)
SMGs 150 meters (Dmitrieff 9)
SMGs – aimed/suppressive fire 200 (Ferguson 77)
Demonstrated Range:
.22RF handgun/no wind 500 yds. (full silhouette)
.38 target handguns 300 (turkey silhouette)
(Keith 109, 116)
SIG P210 pistol 100-200 (Thompson 71)
MP5 Semi-Auto 150 (Ayoob 7)
SMGs 100-150 meters
(Taylor, Sensible 23)
Marshal Arms Pistol 150 yds. (Balsavage)
It becomes apparent that the 9mm x 19 has more range potential
than most are aware of. Remember Elmer Keith using a .44 magnum
hitting a deer at 500-600 yards ( Seyfried 26).
VII Proposed Criteria for PDW
Height: 6 in/15.4cm Barrel: 7 in+/17.8 cm+
Length: <12 in/30cm Weight: 3 lbs/1.36 kg
Capacity: 25+ rds. Cyclic Rate: semi, burst, 600 rpm
Sights: Rifle, tritium dot Range: 150 meters
Stocks: Retractable, Detachable Ammo: 9mm, 221 fireball,
Steyr Flechette, ?
Features:
Ambidextrous controls Optional higher capacity
magazine
Flash suppressor/muzzle brake Suppressor
Picatinny rail for: sights Modular design
and accessories Tactical sling
Most important criteria:
Ammo selection must meet range, armor piercing and stopping
power requirements. Is the 9mm x 19 good enough? Will adopting nonstandard
or high tech ammo be enough of a tactical advantage over
the logistical disadvantage?
Sights: use assault rifle type of sight or the new tritium dot sights: Trijicon,
Ring Sight, Meprolight. These new types of sights will increase speed of
day/night target acquisition and range without needing batteries.
Stocks must be retractable, i.e., M3, H&K, etc. Also, detachable, folding,
sturdy and aid shooting.
The horizontal magazine makes the firearm more compact as contrasted
to standard magazines, which protrude from the firearm.
With the magazine placed horizontally above and parallel to the
barrel, it allows: compactness, high magazine capacity, able to fire from
the low-prone position, holsterable (Marshal Arms). Low barrel position
with the pistol handle forward makes repeat shots easier and to be fired
one-handed. The Hill SMG set the example for the HKG11, FNP90 and
Marshal Arms Assault Pistol.
Holsterable to be available to the user at all times.
Compact firepower, keep the PDW small. Do not make it into a larger
SMG or assault rifle.
...

Thompson machine billet receivers (and FN partts required)

Posted by: streetrod

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:31 pm Post subject: Thompson machine billet receivers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, I should have mine any day now. Will be cool to see. I also found all the required parts for the receiver to make it complete. The image shows the part numbers for the 3 springs, the charging handle and the take down button. With these pieces and his receiver, all thats needed for a complete upper is the barrel assembly. The operating handle studs are not needed. They came with the handle

FN contact number for the parts are 1-800-635-1321



1x Support Barrel Lock Spring BPS90000001 $1.25
1x Support Barrel Lock BPS90000002 $15.75
1x Operating Handle Return Spring BPS90000003 $3.75
1x Operating Handle BPS90000004 $48.00
2x Operating Handle Stud BPS90000005 $1.25 ea.
1x Barrel Return Spring BPS90000006 $1.25 ea.

I. Personal Defense Weapon: Only for Defense?

I. Personal Defense Weapon: Only for Defense?
There has been some debate on the criteria, need and tactical role
of the PDW. Let us examine this issue. It can be compared to the
submachine gun. The SMG provided firepower in a smaller package as a
companion arm to the World War II and post-war battle rifles. However,
with the miniaturization leading to the assault rifle, the role of the SMG has
supposedly declined.
Yet the SMG shoots on! Its major disadvantage is lack of range,
because of only firing pistol ammunition. This seeming disadvantage has
many benefits which are low: recoil, muzzle blast, climb, penetration, size,
weight, cost and training time (Taylor, Analysis 14). The Europeans, Israelis,
and Chinese have been more appreciative of the SMG and machine
pistol than the Americans.
The SMG will be more versatile than the handgun and the shotgun
in most tactical situations (Taylor, Sub 8). No one questions its OFFENSIVE
capabilities. Its use has been expanded from the military to police, SWAT
and others.
Handicaps of the SMG
But its size, weight and limited range handicaps its use, especially
with the arrive of the assault rifle and mini-assault rifle, such as: Colt XM177,
HK53, AKSU, etc.
II. Machine Pistol to the Rescue?
Even smaller than the SMG are the machine pistols. They have the
compact size and low weight desired for the PDW. But most have the
following problems: not controllable on full automatic fire, short ranged
and awkward with stock and/or attached holster ( Karwan 60-1). The
standard pistol design fares very poorly for full automatic fire. Only the
very expert can use them effectively in specialized circumstances
(Thompson, Mastering 66-7). The PDW must learn from the deficiencies of
the machine pistol.
IIII. Back to the Future
The Astra Model F. Hill SMG, Polish PM63, Colt SCAMP, Ingram, Davis
arm gun and Sarvis forearm gun all have characteristics that would lead
to a good PDW. That is to say, compact firepower.
IV. Changing Requirements and Present Criteria for PDW
In 1980 the American Rifleman reported that the Joint Service Small
Arms Program wanted to replace the 1911A1.45 pistol with a 9mm and
improve hit probability (Cowgill 82). Even today the Close Combat
Armament Center brochure of TACOM-ARDEC, Picatinny Arsenal, lists the
M9 as a PDW.
The requirements changed in 1993 from a simple handgun to:
Weight: <1 .5="" 100="" br="" lbs.="" meter="" range="">Defeat body armor at 50 meters
Hand-free carry and to be worn on person 24 hours a day
Use by special operations troops ( Crist 102, 106).
According to the Army Small Arms Master Plan of 1995, it was
reported that the PDW should be:
<3 500-625="" br="" ft.="" lbs.="" range="">Concealable Recoil of 9mm
Low magnetic signature Reliable in all weather (Grimes 34-5)
A later report in 1997 indicates:
Replace pistols/SMGs Selective fire
200 meter range Soft/hard target capability
Leap ahead technology
Users: those not armed with rifles, special operations, and law
enforcement ( Steadman, Fighting 21-2).
Nick Steadman reported that the NATO European Staff target for
the PDW as of October 1999 was:
Weight: Handheld – 1 kg (700 gm. desired) Shoulder - 3 kg
Range: 100-200 meters Protected targets: 30-50 meters desired
Suitable while wearing armor, NBC suits and winter clothing (SADW).
According to Mark McFadden of the Picatinny Arsenal, the U.K. has
combined with NATO to develop a PDW replacing the 9mm. However,
the U.S. does not intend to replace its 9 mm systems (E-mail).
U.K. Summary of Requirements:
<.5 meters long Weight: loaded – 3 kg.
Defeat CRISAT protected targets: 150 meters
Off the shelf designs in calibers not used by UK armed forces and in
5.56 will be assessed (no 9mm?)
First batch in service 2003; follow up deliveries: 2004 and 2005
(MoD) (Wood).
In summary, the PDW requirements evolved from a replacement for
the .45 pistol to an entirely new ambitious and even radical firearms
category.
V. Design Problems
To keep a PDW compact, magazine capacity of 25 rds., range
requirements and body armor penetration are difficult to achieve.
Ammunition Selection is critical. To achieve high magazine
capacity, reducing the base size of the cartridge allows more rounds to
be stored in the magazine. Reducing the bullet size and weight also helps
with this problem, i.e., HK 4.6mm, FN 5.7mm.
Storing the magazine in the pistol handle does not allow enough
round capacity (25 rds.). Enlarging the pistol handle will make the firearm
difficult to use for those with less than large hands and with winter gloves.
Necking down standard pistol rounds allows the use of a standard pistol
design, i.e. .224Boz, .224 VOB. Note, as discussed previously in machine
pistols, this layout does not allow good control on full auto-fire.
Most of these attempts mean using cartridges of small size and thus
stopping power In the Korean War, the 7.62 Tokarev and .30 carbine
gained the reputation of having poor stopping power (Russ 143, 151, 212).
Increasing the base or overall size of the cartridge will increase the
length and size of the magazine, thus hurting the compactness of the
PDW, i.e., 224Boz, 5.56mm NATO.
Body Armor Penetration of CRISAT protected targets at 150 meters is
a formidable task for the PDW. CRISAT body armor consists of 1. mm
titanium with twenty layers of aramid (John, James 45). If this is an allimportant
demand, then the 9mm will not do. Then others will ask, why not
go to the 5.56 NATO cartridge.
Other possible candidates are: . 221 Fireball, 5.7 Johnson, .30
carbine, 9mm Win. Magnum, 9.2mm Russian. High technology
ammunition, such as the Steyr plastic cased flechette could be utilized.
Any new ammunition means increased cost and logistics.
Use of the standard magazine increases the size of the firearm. The
Czechoslovak and Uzi designs are the most space efficient. The new HK
4.6 mm PDW follows this layout. Still, in most designs the magazine
protrudes, hurting the compactness of the firearm.
Ammunition and Size will Determine the Design of the PDW.
VI Can the 9mm x 19 Fly?
Would the 9mm NATO make an effective PDW cartridge? Does it
have the effective range?
Theoretical Range:
Line of sight danger zone 350 meters (45 x 160 cm target)
Terminal Ballistics 630 (15 kg, 108 ft lbs)
Relative penetration (ball) 300 (steel helmet)
(Kjellgren 40-3)
Majority SMGs 100 – 200
Selective fire/long barrel 250-350 yds. (Nelson/Musgrave 6)
SMGs 150 meters (Dmitrieff 9)
SMGs – aimed/suppressive fire 200 (Ferguson 77)
Demonstrated Range:
.22RF handgun/no wind 500 yds. (full silhouette)
.38 target handguns 300 (turkey silhouette)
(Keith 109, 116)
SIG P210 pistol 100-200 (Thompson 71)
MP5 Semi-Auto 150 (Ayoob 7)
SMGs 100-150 meters
(Taylor, Sensible 23)
Marshal Arms Pistol 150 yds. (Balsavage)
It becomes apparent that the 9mm x 19 has more range potential
than most are aware of. Remember Elmer Keith using a .44 magnum
hitting a deer at 500-600 yards ( Seyfried 26).
Heavier Loading/Longer Barrel would improve the 9mm as Dmitrieff
suggests, which would put it into the carbine class (3). This is what the
Czechoslovaks did with the Models 24 and 26 in 7.62 Tok (Nelson and
Lockhoven 189). 9mm 5mg ammunition exists and +P, +P+ ammo are
used on a regular basis by law enforcement. Further comparisons are:
Thompson – Center pistol 9 in. barrel CCI Blazer 124 gr – 1350 Fps
Revolver 4 in barrel Rem. 357 125 – 1450
(Comus, 222, 4)
Walther P38 4-7/8 in Win. 115 – 1155
Marshal Arms Pistol 6.5 in Win. 115 – 1212
(Balsavage)
With a longer barrel, an increase of 15% velocity can be gained
(McLaughlin 67).
Better Sights equal to current assault rifles and/or high technology. Tritium
red dot type of sights would improve hit capability and range.
Body Armor can be overcome by using armor piercing ammunition at
reasonable ranges, although civilian police would not appreciate this.
Common ammo as used by the pistol is an advantage on the battlefield
(McLaughlin). Any new, non-standard ammunition increases logistical
supply problems. Note: the U.S. does not intend to change from the 9mm
system (McFadden). High tech ammunition not only increases logistics,
but also the time/cost for research and development. Will any nonstandard
ammunition provide a significant tactical advantage over the
9mm?
The 9mm x 19’s advantage is that it is the world’s most used military
pistol/SMG cartridge! Will the 9mm make an effective PDW? Only time,
range and armor piercing questions will tell.
VII Proposed Criteria for PDW
Height: 6 in/15.4cm Barrel: 7 in+/17.8 cm+
Length: <12 3="" br="" cm="" in="" kg="" lbs="" weight:="">Capacity: 25+ rds. Cyclic Rate: semi, burst, 600 rpm
Sights: Rifle, tritium dot Range: 150 meters
Stocks: Retractable, Detachable Ammo: 9mm, 221 fireball,
Steyr Flechette, ?
Features:
Ambidextrous controls Optional higher capacity
magazine
Flash suppressor/muzzle brake Suppressor
Picatinny rail for: sights Modular design
and accessories Tactical sling
Most important criteria:
Ammo selection must meet range, armor piercing and stopping
power requirements. Is the 9mm x 19 good enough? Will adopting nonstandard
or high tech ammo be enough of a tactical advantage over
the logistical disadvantage?
Sights: use assault rifle type of sight or the new tritium dot sights: Trijicon,
Ring Sight, Meprolight. These new types of sights will increase speed of
day/night target acquisition and range without needing batteries.
Stocks must be retractable, i.e., M3, H&K, etc. Also, detachable, folding,
sturdy and aid shooting.
The horizontal magazine makes the firearm more compact as contrasted
to standard magazines, which protrude from the firearm.
With the magazine placed horizontally above and parallel to the
barrel, it allows: compactness, high magazine capacity, able to fire from
the low-prone position, holsterable (Marshal Arms). Low barrel position
with the pistol handle forward makes repeat shots easier and to be fired
one-handed. The Hill SMG set the example for the HKG11, FNP90 and
Marshal Arms Assault Pistol.
Holsterable to be available to the user at all times.
Compact firepower, keep the PDW small. Do not make it into a larger
SMG or assault rifle.
VII (B) Slide comparing Uzi SMG to horizontal magazine firearm
VII (C) Slide comparing HKMP5 to Marshal Arms Assault Pistol
VIII Cautionary Note
PDW will be a highly desirable weapon for terrorists and criminals. It
offers concealed firepower, more range and magazine capacity than the
pistol and shotgun. More attention will be needed to secure these
firearms.
Yes, there are already other compact firearms out there. Also, we
all know that criminals follow all gun control legislation.
IX Need for and Tactical Role of the PDW
The PDW is not an assault rifle! For troops that need shorter rifles, arm
them with mini-assault rifles.
The pistol is regarded as a defensive weapon (Taylor, Analysis 75),
with a maximum effective range out to 25 meters for most personnel. Col.
Cooper states it takes a minimum of 500 rds. to train on (101). Also, the
instructors must be highly qualified. Its magazine capacity and range are
limited.
In 1963, Nelson’s The World’s SMG, stated, “Previous firearms for selfdefense,
such as pistols, are no longer sufficient for the crews of heavy
weapons, or for the members of small specialized infantry or patrol units.”
(20).
Dmitrieff echoed the above by saying, “The need for a light and
compact arm, more accurate than a pistol, has been felt by soldiers since
the introduction of firearms.” (5).
Both have encouraged the development and use of the SMG.
Chuck Taylor has pointed out that the stocked machine pistol and the
SMG are more effective than the pistol (Machine 50). Even though the
assault rifle has replaced the SMG in a larger role, both are too large for
PDW applications.
Tactical Mission Need: Personal Defense Weapon to provide more
firepower and range than a pistol, yet is smaller than the standard SMG,
carbine, and assault rifle. Required for crew-served weapons personnel,
wheel/armor/aircraft crews, combat leaders, special operations, police,
SWAT, etc. Holsterable/concealable. One-handed firing while: driving,
boarding ships, climbing, rappelling, wounded, etc. or those normally
issued with a pistol.
The PDW is controllable on full-automatic, has more range,
magazine capacity and is easier to train on than the pistol. Without a
stock, it is basically a defensive compact weapon. (Note: some slings aid
in firing). When a tanker has to sweep his vehicle or unhorse it – he will
have a far more capable PDW than a pistol!
Can the PDW Be Offensive?
Yes, with a well-designed stock that aids shooting. Detachable,
retractable, aid in compactness.
Goods sights equal to rifle or high tech tritium ret dot sights help in
target acquisition and range. Both stocks and sights give the PDW full use
of its potential.
Combined with other features previously mentioned, all combine to
give the PDW a hit capability to 150 meters and equal to most SMG in
combat effectiveness. The PDW could be compared to a miniaturized
SMG but with longer range and accuracy potential.
Its niche is compact firepower. With the recent emphasis on Military
Operations in Urban Terrain and Close Quarters Battle, the need for it is
even stronger.
Let us change the Personal Defense Weapon’s name to the
“Assault Pistol” to emphasize its size and offensive potential.
X Errors and Recommended Reading
All errors, opinions and conclusions are solely the author’s. The hope
of this presentation is to further debate, and in so doing, benefit the soldier
and police officer.
Recommended Reading
Historical:
World’s Submachine Guns, Vol. I, by Nelson, Lockhoven.
World’s Machine Pistols and Submachine Guns, Vol IIA, by Nelson,
Musgrave.
Shooting Impression:
Karward, Charles
Thompson, Leroy
both in leading firearms magazines.
Up-to-Date Info:
Small Arms Review: Smallarmsreview@aol.com
Steadman, Nick: Small Arms Data by Wire (SADW)
SADW @compuserve.com and leading firearms magazines.
Tactical Use of:
Books and articles by Taylor, Chuck:
The Combat Shotgun and Submachine Gun: A Special Weapons Analysis
SWAT magazine
Tactical Shooter
WORKS CITED
Ayoob, Massad. “Full Auto Firing Techniques.” Full Auto. Vol. 1. 1984.
Balsavage, Walter. “9mm x 19 Tests by author.”
Close Combat Armaments Center, U.S. Army Armament Research,
Development and Engineering Center. Picatinny Arsenal.
Cowgill, James. “Small Arms for Tomorrow’s Battlefield.” American
Rifleman. Jun. 1980.
Comus, Steve.The Gun Digest Book of 9mm Handguns. 2nd Ed. Northbrook:
DBI Books. MCMXCIII.
Cooper, Jeff. Cooper on Handguns. Los Angeles: Peterson. 1974.
Crimes, Vincent. “Small Arms Plan Yields Results, New Contracts.” National
Defense. Jul./Aug. 1995.
Crist, Stanley. “The Small Arms Master Plan.” The Gun Digest, 1993. 47th Ed.
Ken Warner. Northbrook: DBI Books. 1992.
Dmitrieff, G. Submachine Gun Designer’s Handbook. Cornville: Desert.
1981.
Ferguson, Tom. Modern Law Enforcement Weapons and Tactics. 2nd Ed.
Northbrook: DBI Books. MCMXCI.
John, Jeff and James, Gary. “World’s Hottest Pistol Round.” Guns and
Ammo: High Tech Firearms. 1999.
Karwan, Charles. “Spitfires.” American Handgunner: Combat 1999
Annual. 1999.
Keith, Elmer. Sixguns by Keith. Harrisburg: Stackpole. 1961.
McFadden, Mark J. E-mail to author. 14 Apr 2000.
McLoughlin, Chris. “SMGs, ARs and SGNs: Law Enforcement’s Choice.”
Small Arms Review. Jul. 1999.
Nelson, Thomas and Lockhoven, Hans. The World’s Submachine Guns
(Machine Pistols) Vol. I. Cologne: International Small Arms. 1964.
---. and Musgrave, Daniel. The World’s Machine Pistols and Submachine
Guns, Vol. IIA. Hong Kong: Chelsas Ltd. 1980.
Russ, Martin. Breakout: The Chosin Reservoir Campaign, Korea, 1950.
New York: Fromn, 1999.
Seyfried, Ross. “Long-Range Handgunning.” Handguns Annual. 1999.
Steadman, Nick. “Future Shot: More Bang for Your Buck (Rogers).”
Fighting Firearms. Spring 1997.
---. Small Arms Data by Wire (SADW). #29. Oct. 1999.
SADW@compuserve.com.
Taylor, Chuck. The Combat Shotgun and SMG: A Special Weapons
Analysis. Boulder: Paladin Press. 1985.
---. “Machine Pistols.” Guns Illustrated: 1968. Vernon Hills: DBI Books. 1967.
---. “The Safe, Sane and Sensible SMG.” SWAT. April 1982.
---. “The Submachine Gun Today.” Oct. 1999.
Thompson, Leroy. “Swiss Perfection for Y2K.” Handguns. Oct. 1999.
---. “Mastering the Machine Pistol.” Combat Handguns. Dec. 1999.
U.K. “Summary of Requirements: PDW.” MoD Contracts Bulletin
26 Jan. 2000.
Wood, N.M. E-mail “Future Possible Purchase DCC1/031-Personal Defense
Weapon.” Defence Procurement Agency, 15 Aug. 2000 to author.
IV. Changing Requirements and Present Criteria for PDW
In 1980 the American Rifleman reported that the Joint Service Small Arms
Program wanted to replace the 1911A1.45 pistol with a 9mm and improve hit
probability (Cowgill 82). Even today the Close Combat Armament Center
brochure of TACOM-ARDEC, Picatinny Arsenal, lists the M9 as a PDW.
The requirements changed in 1993 from a simple handgun to:
Weight: <1 .5="" 100="" br="" lbs.="" meter="" range="">Defeat body armor at 50 meters
Hand-free carry and to be worn on person 24 hours a day
Use by special operations troops (Crist 102, 106).
According to the Army Small Arms Master Plan of 1995, it was reported
that the PDW should be:
<3 500-625="" br="" ft.="" lbs.="" range="">Concealable Recoil of 9mm
Low magnetic signature Reliable in all weather (Grimes 34-5)
A later report in 1997 indicates:
Replace pistols/SMGs Selective fire
200 meter range Soft/hard target capability
Leap ahead technology
Users: those not armed with rifles, special operations, and law
enforcement (Steadman, Fighting 21-2).
Nick Steadman reported that the NATO European Staff target for the PDW
as of October 1999 was:
Weight: Handheld – 1 kg (700 gm. desired) Shoulder - 3 kg
Range: 100-200 meters Protected targets: 30-50 meters desired
Suitable while wearing armor, NBC suits and winter clothing (SADW).
According to Mark McFadden of the Picatinny Arsenal, the U.K. has
combined with NATO to develop a PDW replacing the 9mm. However, the U.S.
does not intend to replace its 9 mm systems (E-mail).
U.K. Summary of Requirements:
<.5 meters long Weight: loaded – 3 kg.
Defeat CRISAT protected targets: 150 meters
Off the shelf designs in calibers not used by UK armed forces and in
5.56 will be assessed (no 9mm?)
First batch in service 2003; follow up deliveries: 2004 and 2005
(MoD) (Wood).
In summary, the PDW requirements evolved from a replacement for the
.45 pistol to an entirely new ambitious and even radical firearms category.
VI Can the 9mm x 19 Fly?
Would the 9mm NATO make an effective PDW cartridge? Does it
have the effective range?
Theoretical Range:
Line of sight danger zone 350 meters (45 x 160 cm target)
Terminal Ballistics 630 (15 kg, 108 ft lbs)
Relative penetration (ball) 300 (steel helmet)
(Kjellgren 40-3)
Majority SMGs 100 – 200
Selective fire/long barrel 250-350 yds. (Nelson/Musgrave 6)
SMGs 150 meters (Dmitrieff 9)
SMGs – aimed/suppressive fire 200 (Ferguson 77)
Demonstrated Range:
.22RF handgun/no wind 500 yds. (full silhouette)
.38 target handguns 300 (turkey silhouette)
(Keith 109, 116)
SIG P210 pistol 100-200 (Thompson 71)
MP5 Semi-Auto 150 (Ayoob 7)
SMGs 100-150 meters
(Taylor, Sensible 23)
Marshal Arms Pistol 150 yds. (Balsavage)
It becomes apparent that the 9mm x 19 has more range potential
than most are aware of. Remember Elmer Keith using a .44 magnum
hitting a deer at 500-600 yards ( Seyfried 26).
VII Proposed Criteria for PDW
Height: 6 in/15.4cm Barrel: 7 in+/17.8 cm+
Length: <12 3="" br="" cm="" in="" kg="" lbs="" weight:="">Capacity: 25+ rds. Cyclic Rate: semi, burst, 600 rpm
Sights: Rifle, tritium dot Range: 150 meters
Stocks: Retractable, Detachable Ammo: 9mm, 221 fireball,
Steyr Flechette, ?
Features:
Ambidextrous controls Optional higher capacity
magazine
Flash suppressor/muzzle brake Suppressor
Picatinny rail for: sights Modular design
and accessories Tactical sling
Most important criteria:
Ammo selection must meet range, armor piercing and stopping
power requirements. Is the 9mm x 19 good enough? Will adopting nonstandard
or high tech ammo be enough of a tactical advantage over
the logistical disadvantage?
Sights: use assault rifle type of sight or the new tritium dot sights: Trijicon,
Ring Sight, Meprolight. These new types of sights will increase speed of
day/night target acquisition and range without needing batteries.
Stocks must be retractable, i.e., M3, H&K, etc. Also, detachable, folding,
sturdy and aid shooting.
The horizontal magazine makes the firearm more compact as contrasted
to standard magazines, which protrude from the firearm.
With the magazine placed horizontally above and parallel to the
barrel, it allows: compactness, high magazine capacity, able to fire from
the low-prone position, holsterable (Marshal Arms). Low barrel position
with the pistol handle forward makes repeat shots easier and to be fired
one-handed. The Hill SMG set the example for the HKG11, FNP90 and
Marshal Arms Assault Pistol.
Holsterable to be available to the user at all times.
Compact firepower, keep the PDW small. Do not make it into a larger
SMG or assault rifle.
...

Help! I cannot find an ATF ruling on an electric trigger.

I'm wondering about a .22 bull-pup project that I would like to try.

There is almost no room in the design for a transfer bar or cable set-up to operate the trigger, and I really do not want to make anymore room.

What might the ruling be if I were to use an electrically-switched trigger, 123C battery and a small electric solenoid? I would have enough room for something like that.

I KNOW that disabled shooters are allowed to use electric triggers and air-powered set-ups...But I need to know the legality concerning non-challenged folks.

The only reason that I'm really concerned is that an electric trigger could (in my opinion) be easily set-up as an electronic trigger, capable of pulsing the current...which would put the project in NFA territory, and I don't want to go there.

Dlask Arms Corp. Pump Action Carbine

Features:
# Pump Action Carbine
# Chambered for Military 5.56 and .223 Remington
# Proprietary 20 or 30 rd. magazines (do not fit AR-15)
# Accepts standard AR-15 magazines (must still be pinned to 5 rds.)
# Custom barrel lengths available (14.5" barrel shown)
# Class: Restricted
# Made in Canada
Will be available by summer 2006.

Email: dlask@telus.net
Phone: (604) 527-9942
Fax: (604) 527-9982

Dlask Arms Corp.
202B - 1546 Derwent Way
Delta, BC, Canada V3M6M4

http://www.dlaskarms.com


[picture]

Panther™ Pump Pistol

Panther™ Pump Pistol
Features
Barrel:
10.5" Length w/A2 flash hider (birdcage)
4140 chrome-moly steel heavy barrel (pistol)
Manganese Phosphated
6 grooves, right-hand 1x9 twist, button rifled
Chamber:
5.56x45mm
Method of Operation:
pump action rotating bolt
Bolt & Carrier:
8620 steel bolt carrier, heat treated and plated per Mil Spec
Phosphated steel bolt, heat treated and plated per Mil Spec
Sights:
A2 front sight Assembly
Weight:
Empty - 5 lbs.
Length:
19" Pistol
Upper Receiver:
A2 fixed carrying handle and and rear sight adjustable for windage and elevation, Forged
7075-T6 aircraft aluminum alloy
Hard coat anodized per Mil Spec and Teflon coated black
Dust cover
Shell deflector
Round forward assist
Right hand ejection
Lower Receiver:
Forged 7075-T6 aircraft aluminum alloy
Hard coat anodized per Mil Spec and Teflon coated black
Semi-auto trigger group
Aluminum trigger guard
Aluminum magazine release button
Handguards:
Aluminum Pump Action
Knurled
Each rifle comes with 2- 30 rd. Magazines, 1- Nylon Web Sling and 1- Cleaning Kit

DPMS Panther Pump Action Rifle AR 15

DPMS Panther Pump Action Rifle AR 15
“Pump action” is usually a phrase used to refer to shotguns, not rifles; but, in true DPMS Panther Arms style, the innovative DPMS Panther Pump Action Rifle is just that: pump action. Chambered for the .223 Cal, this DPMS AR 15 features:

• Barrel Length: 20”
• Sights: Dual aperture rear sight adjustable for windage and elevation; Elevation adjustable Mil Spec front sight post
• Weight Unloaded: 8.5lbs
• Length: 39.5”
• Stock: Black Zytel composition A2 Buttstock with Trap Door Assembly OR Aluminum Telescoping Carbine Stock Assembly
• Handguards: Aluminum Free Float Tube

With a black Teflon coating on the upper and lower receivers, this DPMS AR 15 is as cosmetically appealing as it is high-performance. With the choice of 10, 20, or 30 round magazines (where available), an A2 compensator (flash hider), and 4140 steel heavy barrel, it’s almost impossible not to love the DPMS Panther Pump Action Rifle.

Call for price.

OUT OF STOCK

Adapter 9mm PARA / 4mm M20

Nabízím adapter 9mm PARA / 4mm M20 . Na tento předmět není potřeba povolení. Kupující stvrzuje svým přihozením že je mu 18 let. Pravděpodobně se jedná o "lidovou tvořivost" zvláštní kosočtvercová signatura.

Rád odpovím na otázky. Náboj M20 4mm není součástí aukce!!!



[more pics available]

Lever action rifle La-30 calibre .30 Carbine Cartridge

[A good starting point for a 5.7x28mm AR?)



This is our Lever action Gallery rifle, with a superb cartridge capable of being loaded for indoor low loads up to MOA busting 300 yard range accuracy with a weight and balance that suits many matches and multi position shooting.The left hand cocking and right hand cocking levers can still be specified and used which together with the rear charger, can make this the only 4 system cocking rifle in the world. NB This rifle can also be specified as a straight pull only.

Standard specification rifle - (Illustrated rifle is not Standard Spec)

Lower receiver assembly
SGC forged 7075-t6 alloy lower receiver lever action version
A2 rifle buttstock and buffer tube assembly
SGC & DPMS lower receiver parts
Standard trigger and hammer
Pearce grip
Standard safety
Standard mag release
Standard bolt release
Magazine 16 round capacity fully CNC machined

Upper receiver assembly
High or low, match upper receiver with match bolt & lever action carrier (integral scope rail)
standard firing pin
Alloy free float forend
Stainless fluted match barrel, 18" approx length 1 in 10 twist
Assembly and proof testing of custom rifle
SGC heavy duty forend stud


Price for this rifle £1017.26 (Inc. VAT @ 17.5%)